duffrey93 Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 Hello everyone I am having issues with my 1992 Loyale. The car does not want to start, it just cranks but will not actually start up. I have tried several things but I am at a loss. I'll give a run down of all the issues. The car just randomly dies one day. It was shut off and just didnt want to start back up. It did crank however. But one odd thing is the brake fluid light turned on?? The car has been sitting for a month or two. I just haven't had any time to work on it. And still with jumping the car it just cranks with no hint of starting. So I finally get a chance to dig in and here are the things I have tried: 1. New coil 2. New Alternator. I originally didn't think it was the alternator but someone mentioned that it could be the issue. I took it the the autoparts store, they tested it twice and said it was dead. Bought a new one, installed it, tried jumping it but still just cranks. Maybe that alternator is bad? 3. New Battery 4. Fuel comes from the supply side of the fuel filter so, it doesn't seem to be the filter or the pump(pump was replaced about 2 years ago anyway). 5. Popped the distributor cap off and cranked it and it spins so I am guessing the timing belt is fine. It seems to be attached on the passenger side as well. 6. Plugs are only about a year old 7. Doesnt seem to be any fuel in the throttle body. I took the intake pipe off and tried cranking the engine and seems bone dry. I poured some gas into the throttle body and still didnt want to start, just cranks. 8. I popped out the fuel injector and a bunch of gas flowed out. But that little bit of gas still wasn't enough to get the car to start. And its single port injection. So maybe the injector is bad? 9. Checked all fuses, and the tank is full So here are my thoughts. Either no spark or no fuel, injector issue? But if the injector isnt getting any power then maybe its not doing its squirty thing? And thats why a bunch of fuel comes out after taking it out. So I am not sure what else to do. I am going to try new distributor cap and plug wires (I know simple things but maybe?) And then possibly a new injector. Any suggestions???? Thanks in advance! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john in KY Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 Check the timing belt/belts for stripped teeth. Also verify the screw retaining the rotor hasn't fallen out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mugs Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 Ignition relay...IIRC its on the left hand side, above the fuse panel. Its a PIA to get to...they should be mounted on a bracket. One is fuel (green) and the other is ignition relay (black) replace that and report back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 Check to see if power is getting to the plus side of the ignition coil while the ignition switch is ON. If you don't have voltage there then make sure the fusible links are ok since you checked the fuses already. The fuses may be ok but still not be getting power. The links are inside the plastic box mounted on the coolant resevoir. Also check for loose connections there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maozebong Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 id check to see that you first are getting power to the crank angle sensor, then see if its getting a signal. that's just how the FSM says to go about it, and i was in the same spot as you and ended up replacing the ecu because it wasnt powering the CAS. when these alternators go out, or moreso the rectifier bridge, it puts out AC voltage and it can kill all kinds of electronics. in my case, it blew out the ecu, headlight bulbs, the dome light, the radio fuse, and tail light bulbs. in any case, id follow the FSM flow chart so that you chase things in the right order at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilesFox Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 The transistor on the coil bracket may have failed. Check for fuse#5 if it is blown, as this supplies a 12v constant to the ECU. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duffrey93 Posted March 5, 2012 Author Share Posted March 5, 2012 Thanks for all the suggestions everyone. I still haven't had a chance to check it out but I am hoping sometime this week. Question for maozebong, what is the FSM? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 (edited) FSM= Factory Service Manual. The best and most detailed information you can get about your vehicle. Just like the credit card advertisment says, 'Priceless'. Edited March 5, 2012 by Cougar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duffrey93 Posted March 11, 2012 Author Share Posted March 11, 2012 So I am finally back to working in the loyale. And thes are the things I've checked. Fuses are all good. The little screw is all good on the distributor. And now one big thing. I'm look at the ecu or ECM and when I turn the ignition to on position I don't see the little red led light up. Does this mean it's bad and I should get a new one? Or could there still be. Something else wrong? Unfirtunaly I only get about one day a week to work on this thing. If anybody has any suggestions thatd be great Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duffrey93 Posted March 12, 2012 Author Share Posted March 12, 2012 So I dug in a little deeper and followed the factory service manual. The only things I can can really guess that still might be the issue are: 1. ECM 2. Transitor by the coil 3. Ignition of Fuel relays I'll keep everyone updated on my findings or I might just end up selling the thing as is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pressingonward Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 So do you have spark or not? Your post is not clear. Lay a spark plug against the bare metal of the cylinder head or intake manifold and crank it over, see if you have spark. Does your tachometer wiggle at all when you crank it? If not you have no crank signal. This could be a bad distributor, bad ECM, or a problem with the wiring/fuses/relays. Get out a wiring diagram and make sure you have power going to the ECM on all of the power supply wires (4 or 5 if I remember right), and good grounds. If you don't have power trace it back to the appropriate fuse or relay (or bad wire, but that's less likely) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Fuses are all good. The fuses may be ok but did you check to see if power is getting to all of them? From what you say it sounds like there is a power problem. Possibly the ignition relay is the problem if all the fuses are getting power to them. Fusible links are another possible trouble area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivans imports Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 i get this on alot its a wintertime problem up here the ignitor grounds through the coil mount on bottom bolt has a bad habbit of geting a bitt of corosion and makes a poor ground and will still spark but no injector pulse clean up the mounts where coil is bolted on to bare meatal and back of coil mount there is a raised aluiminum pad on back make shure is very clean and try agian i get thiss problem lots only time loyales get towed into my shop unless timing belt is broken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duffrey93 Posted April 25, 2012 Author Share Posted April 25, 2012 Thanks again for all the help everyone. I am still struggling with the car though. I have kind of put it on pause and have been trying the sell it in the mean time. The other day I got a little motivation and bought an junkyard distributor and ECM just to check it out and neither of those did the trick. I am pretty sure it is beyond me at this point. I dont quite know enough to check wiring diagrams. I think I am just going to continue to try to sell it unless a miracle simple fix happens. Thanks agian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duffrey93 Posted April 25, 2012 Author Share Posted April 25, 2012 oh and one other just quick note. I seem to be getting fuel all the way to the injector but the fuel doesnt seem to actually squirting from the injector. I gently pried the injector out and a bunch of fuel poured into the throttle body. I put everything back together and tried cranking it over again but still didnt start. I dont know if this clues anybody in to anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKghandi Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 check the fuel pressure regulator pull the vac line and see if its leaking fuel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 I again suggest you verify power is getting to things like the fuses, plus side of the coil, and the injectors. A blown fusible link could be causing the trouble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilesFox Posted April 26, 2012 Share Posted April 26, 2012 I again suggest you verify power is getting to things like the fuses, plus side of the coil, and the injectors. A blown fusible link could be causing the trouble. The ecu is not getting power. the transistor amplifier is independednt of the ecu. just above the relays are the ign and fuel relays. you will hear the fuel relay click when you turn the key. the ign(green) relay should click. try puling one of the AC relays from under the hood and swap it out. otherwise, like cougar says, check for power at the fuses so you know what circuit to focus on. Do you have an aftermarket radio? it probably will be a simpe miracle fix, if you can just find the culprit! anything to do with injecotors, spark, distributyir, etc will be dependent on if the ecu itself is alive, which is dependent on if the ign circuit is alive. you can test the fuses with a simple test light. make note of which ones light up and which ones don't when the key is on. the light should light up on both sides of the fuse if it is good, and on one side if it is blown, or no side if that circuit is not on/live. you will not need to pull the fuses to test them as they have little holes on top for a test probe. once again, you should locate the ign relay clipped to the steering column above the ECU Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loyale 2.7 Turbo Posted April 26, 2012 Share Posted April 26, 2012 ...try to sell it unless a miracle simple fix happens... I'm almost sure that the "Miracle Simple Fix" is at: ...Fusible links are another possible trouble area. Well Written: The Fusible Links. Have you already checked those, which are located inside a Black Box next to (attached to) the Coolant overflow tank? Kind Regards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted April 26, 2012 Share Posted April 26, 2012 If the ECU isn't getting power to it then the fusible links need to be checked, and if they are ok then the ignition relay needs to be checked like Mugs stated earlier. The ignition switch is a possibility also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duffrey93 Posted April 26, 2012 Author Share Posted April 26, 2012 How do you check the fusible links? Do you use a test light similar with check the fused as suggested by MilesFox. I have made a visual inspection and have made sure that the connection as good but other than that Im not sure what to look for. Ive already swapped a good relay in and that didnt seem to help. Someone has also suggested checking the transistor under the coil. It seems easy enough to just replace. Does anyone know where I can get one. And one other thing someone had mentioned a while back is that if the tach doesnt move while I am cranking the engine, then it is possible the distributor is dead. Now I have replaced the distributor with a junk yard one but the tach still does not move upon cranking, so maybe this one is dead too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted April 26, 2012 Share Posted April 26, 2012 (edited) Test a link electrically just like you would any other fuse because that is what it is, just in a different form. You can usually determine if a link is bad by just bending the middle of it. A bad link will usually bend real easy in the middle since the wire will be burned open there. If the links are getting and passing voltage ok then make sure all the fuses in the dash panel are getting voltage to them while the ignition is ON. If that is ok then we need to check power to the ignition relay and see why power isn't getting to the ECU. Perhaps there is a broken wire somewhere. We need to get power to the ECU before any other testing is done. Edited April 26, 2012 by Cougar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pressingonward Posted April 27, 2012 Share Posted April 27, 2012 And one other thing someone had mentioned a while back is that if the tach doesnt move while I am cranking the engine, then it is possible the distributor is dead. Now I have replaced the distributor with a junk yard one but the tach still does not move upon cranking, so maybe this one is dead too? If the computer and/or distributor and/or coil are not getting power the tach will not move upon cranking. There are tons of wiring diagrams available on the board and the power circuits are very simple. Use a multimeter or a test light and test for power with the key on. Once you know which circuit doesn't have power you can see which fuse/relay/fusible link feeds that circuit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilesFox Posted April 27, 2012 Share Posted April 27, 2012 try jumping a wire from the battery to the positive coil terminal. this will energize the ign circuit, and the dash comes on as if the key were in run. Do this and see if the LED on the ecu flashes, or try to start the car with the key. If it starts and runs, replace the ign switch or inspec the terminal it plugs into. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loyale 2.7 Turbo Posted April 28, 2012 Share Posted April 28, 2012 Don't forget that a Tested OK Fusible Link could still be the Culprit due to Corrosion on the Fusble Link's Contacts in the Box. I Had that Issue, the Fusible Links were Good but the Contacts on the Fusible Link's Box were Rusted, so they really didn't Worked. I Ended Bypassing the Fusible Links more than a Decade ago... and the Thing works Great since then. So I Kindly Suggest to Take out each Fusible Link and beside Checkin' them, check their Contacts on the Box. If your Fusible Link's Box has Rusted Contacts, you can Swap it with another Good One. Kind Regards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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