Tricky Posted March 22, 2004 Share Posted March 22, 2004 What is the maximum ft lbs, I can torque the crank pulley bolt? I have gone through 2 pulleys soo far, even with cranking it to 130ft lbs, using locktite. maybe using a large Lock washer perhaps? any arguments against this? would it ruin the torque reached on the bolt??? thoughts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blitz Posted March 22, 2004 Share Posted March 22, 2004 Closely examine the condition of the keyways on both the crank and pulley. If they've been expanded, mushroomed or mis-shapen in any way by the slightest amount (as a result of having previously come loose), you may find it impossible to keep the pulley secure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tricky Posted March 22, 2004 Author Share Posted March 22, 2004 ordered a new pullet and belt drive pulley, they were both rounded out by the bolt loosening and the key moving. the crank itself has been a little bit ground on. but it still holds a key well. I was thinking of spot welding a key in, and tightening the bolt to 150+ ft/.lbs....using a lock washer... any issues, unforseen? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frag Posted March 22, 2004 Share Posted March 22, 2004 Locktite will not workl if used on oily male or female threads. Maybe make sure the crank threads are real clean and dry before using locktite on the bolt threads. Also, using a new bolt could help. My 2 cents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cookie Posted March 22, 2004 Share Posted March 22, 2004 spot weld it. I had this issue on my Mercedes after it spun from the last mechanic not tightening it fully. I had metal transfered from the pulley to the crank. and some spots on the crank a bit low. Don't try this at home kids but I fixed it by pulling the radiator, shroud, fan, etc, and running the engine to turn the crank for short periods. I started by applying a file to the crank to round it roughly, then smoothed it with emery paper till I brought it into specs measured with a micrometer. I had to make a custom key twice as wide as stock on the crank side, and narrowed to stock size on the damper side. Then I cleaned the entire area with ether and applied red locktite. I torqued thing down to specs with a new bolt. I sold the car about 30,000 miles and a couple of years later and it still seemd fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tricky Posted March 22, 2004 Author Share Posted March 22, 2004 Cookie, thanks for the insight...this will be the second crank pulley I have installed, the first time I spun, was pretty bad and left the slot in the crank itself...widened, a hair on each side. new key will fit but it has a small amount of "slop" and I feel I can weld a bead, on the front and rear of the key, then apply locktite to the entire pulley and bolt etc.... I am going to give this a shot...other than pulling the motor and replacing the crank, I really do NOT have many other options...at least in my mind at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cookie Posted March 22, 2004 Share Posted March 22, 2004 but the reason I did not was the seal. If the seal goes on first it could be tricky. If I recall the seal surface is on the pulley on a Subaru but I don't have one here to look at. Welding it is a pretty final step while getting an oversize key from the hardware store and getting out your file allows for more error. Cleaning the excess weld off with a grinder would be a pain too. On old British motorcycles we used to make offset keys to get the crank timing precise, and you can make a lot of keys to get something just right at little cost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tcspeer Posted March 23, 2004 Share Posted March 23, 2004 I still think the proper torque is 90 to 100 ft. lbs. overtighting is just as damaging as under tighting. When it is over tighten the threads are streched and that will weaken the grip the bolt has. Why not follow the specs. that are in the manuals. Ever manual I have seen has the specs. at around 90 lbs. for my 2.2 engine. Many people say the manuals are wrong but nobody has posted anything that shows the revised numbers. If someone has the correct torque please post it with your source of information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legacy777 Posted March 23, 2004 Share Posted March 23, 2004 Proper torque spec is 110 ft/lbs. However I'd recommend 120-140 ft/lbs. I put my UR pulley on about 4 years ago, torqued to 110 ft/lbs and put locktite on, and there was absolutely no issues with it loose...and I just did my t-belt two weekends ago...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOMAD327 Posted March 23, 2004 Share Posted March 23, 2004 Loctite makes a product called quick metal which is made specifically for repairing worn out keyways and fixing similar problems. It’s a thick silver liquid in a tube which you fill the worn out area around the key with. Like most other Loctite products it sets only when assembled in a joint, depriving it of air. It requires clean dry parts like other Loctite products as has already been stated. I have seen it hold up for a period of a year in big industrial drives that reverse direction under load twenty times a minute. At that rate, I would expect it to last nearly forever in a crank key application which is lighter load and mostly only used in one direction. If nothing else, it only takes a few minutes to perform the repair after disassembly, and should it not hold up, there is no permanent damage from the repair itself. I don't normally see it in stores, might have to get it from a bearing supply house. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cookie Posted March 23, 2004 Share Posted March 23, 2004 I can think of several places I might have used that over the years had I known about it. If he used locktite red on the crank and pulley also it might take the actual spinning load. One thing that might be interesting to measure is if the spinning has damaged the surface that locks the pulley. IE on some cranks the pulley sits against a lip. If that lip is too short the bolt can tighten but not actually put any pressure on the pulley so that the key is all that keeps it from turning. On other cars I have tightened the pulley and been able to rock it with my hand because of this. Needless to say I added a washer. I can't think what the Subaru piece looks like at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
intrigueing Posted March 23, 2004 Share Posted March 23, 2004 Clean the threads and crank hole with brakekleen before using locktite. Perhaps your crank is out of balance from the first time it came loose, and now the wobble in the crank adds a torsional force to the pulley making it fail......As stated welding the key may make future headaches for crank seal replacement. When you lost the pulley did the keyway fail, or did the bolt loosen? If the keyway failed perhaps spot weld a few spots from the crank bolt to the pulley? At least that would be removable / replacable without removing the crank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tricky Posted March 23, 2004 Author Share Posted March 23, 2004 THe crank pulley bolt, lossened and therefore the key simply was loose and pulley started to spin on the crank itself...almost acting like a drill...grinding out the pulley. I am starting to doubt spot welds, and go with a very clean, precedure, (brake cleaner, locktite, bolt to 140+ ft/lbs) when tight..the pulley and crank run smoothly....so I don't think the crank is out of whack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cookie Posted March 23, 2004 Share Posted March 23, 2004 I sure liked the idea of the locktight quick metal too if it is available. But anything that takes up the excess space and can take the heat, pressure, and vibration will work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tricky Posted March 23, 2004 Author Share Posted March 23, 2004 appreciate all of your insight, this is a great "blog" of very knowledgeable people! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tricky Posted March 24, 2004 Author Share Posted March 24, 2004 Nomad327 where can I get this quick metal? I have called around and can't find this product, anywhere around the Seattle area. is it still being produced? I have been told about another similar product called, quick steel....is that similar enough to do the job? Thanks, in advance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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