jp98 Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 I have a 98 Legacy Outback with the automatic with 160,000 miles on it. At times when it shifts out of OD down to third it will miss the gear or not go into it. Also at times even if I drop the gear manually it will do the same thing and not go into third. I have been reading that there may be a band adjustment that may need adjustment on the outside of the transmission but I haven't raised the car up to take a look at it. I have tried flushing the old fluid out of it and even a couple of additives between flushes but it is still doing it. So is there something that I can try or is it time for a rebuild Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 Could be a faulty shift solenoid. Though I have heard of these having some strange problems if the pan gets dented. Have you tried to get and codes from the trans control module? Does the ATF light blink when the car is started? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jp98 Posted March 14, 2012 Author Share Posted March 14, 2012 I haven't tried to get any codes from it and the light does not blink. As I said it doesn't happen all the time but enough to be aggravating when driving it in the hills here in Colorado. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 Er um .... how is it on the upshifts. A shift solenoid will do it up and down. What happens if you: take your foot off the gas Pop it into neutral while rolling then put it back in drive. Any other driveability issues or changes. How long has it done this When was the last time the fluid was changed What color is the fluid? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jp98 Posted March 15, 2012 Author Share Posted March 15, 2012 Er um .... how is it on the upshifts. A shift solenoid will do it up and down. What happens if you: take your foot off the gas Pop it into neutral while rolling then put it back in drive. Any other driveability issues or changes. How long has it done this When was the last time the fluid was changed What color is the fluid? Upshifts are fine, nice and smooth I'll have to try the into neutral and then back into drive. This is the only problem that I have with this car, everything else works and runs fine. It has done it for a couple of years. I just have a lot of trips coming up going to Denver over the passes and wanted to see if I could get this fixed this spring. I have flushed out the fluid a couple of times in the last 2 years trying to see if it was the fluid. The fluid is nice and red for the last year or so. When I changed it a couple of years ago it was a dark red. I have also tried a couple of additives that were recomended by a mechanic that I know. First I tried some Lucus and now I have some Trans X in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 (edited) When mechanics tell you to start throwing additives at something, thats not a good thing (but the mechanic does deserve a pat on the back for it). I will have to look at the flow maps for the tranny (Think I have them) to see if there is anything different on the up shift from the down shift. Lets do a little logic (very little). The transmission, all of auto trannies since after fred flintsone burnt out his feet operate the same .Basically they balance pump pressure (constant) over line pressure (variable). Line is affected by speed and throtttle position. Just the way these things are measured and controlled have changed. Instead of a goveneor we have the VSS, and instead of a modulator we have the MAP. Then there are a series of valves. In a subaru you have both solenoids and mechanical. By manually shifting you override the solenoids. The transimission will force an upshift at or over redline to protect the engine, they all do that. Since you stated that it does it when in D4 and when you manually shift it to D3 we can rule out electrical wierdness. Since this has not gotten worse in years I am going to rule out a band or clutch pack, otherwise by now it would have gotten worse. The band adjustment is minimal, adn I need to look it up to see what that band does on a 4eat. Again since you upshift fine the band is fine. Two Possabilities: An Over Running or one way clutch failed. These operate only during specific times. This breaks it will cause free wheeling, at a specific time, but not make things any worse. See [age 8 as this is what I suspect is wrong. It is not unheard of to have one fail, but not common. The OTHER computer in the transmission, the valve body. The only thing I can think of is one of the spool valves are sticking in one direction (they are called spools as that is what they look like). Some are mechanical, some are floaters (the two different pressures on either side operate them) and some are electrically driven. I am going with it being one of the floaters OR a sticking accumulator. Like I said I need to dig into the schematics to find out, so this is all speculation. I may completly wrong, but I dont think so. Once you see a flow diagram for an auto tranny you can undertsand what is going on (really not that hard to figure out with the set of them). Now I have to see If I have them. some light reading http://www.northursalia.com/techdocs/pdf/transmission/4eat.pdf Some even lighter reading http://www.spooledupracing.com/download/Manuals/FSM/Subaru/Impreza%2006/1-Training%20&%20General%20Tech.%20Ref.%20Books/4EAT%20(Automatic%20Transmissions).pdf Edited March 15, 2012 by nipper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jp98 Posted March 15, 2012 Author Share Posted March 15, 2012 Thanks for the light reading material. I took it out for a drive today and it seams like it is working a little bit better but not 100% or even 90%. I did notice that if I was in OD and slowed down to 55 or so and then kicked it down with the pedal it would shift OK about 80% of the time, but if I was ruining over 60+ it would just rev up. I was also paying more attention to all the other shift points and they were as smooth as silk, it is just the down shift out of OD that has me stumped. Also if I didn't mention it when I get it into third gear manually it will stay there with no problems, it is just getting it there at times. I am going to see if it will make it over a couple of 11,000' mountain passes on I-70 in a couple of weeks and see how it goes. So do any of you know of a good Subaru transmission shop in the Denver area? One other shop that I have heard is good is a AAMCO shop in Grand Junction which would be a lot simpler for me to get it to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 AAMCO, if you og there i will personally see that your subaru ownership rights are taken away, right down to your spare parts and owners manual AAMCO is bad, bad, bad. Ask a subaru dealer where they send their customers. Ask around ask anyone BUT aamco. If the car has been doing this for a while and it hasnt gotten any worse it should be fine. Driving over the pass you should be in D3 and all should be well, if not thats why we AAA cards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jp98 Posted March 15, 2012 Author Share Posted March 15, 2012 Cut me some slack on the AAMCO thing. I know that there are bad ones out there and a lot of it depends on the person that is doing the rebuilding. I had a uncle that worked for them for 6 months before he got tired of them and started his own shop, but that was years ago and he is no longer with us or I would take it to him. It would also be nice if we has a Subaru dealer within 100 miles but the closest one that we had built themselves a nice new building and then went out of business. It's a nice looking building thats sitting vacant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 AAMCO is still an evil place. Look around find an independent shop. If you do some research on them it is hard to find a good one, I am sure there is one out there some place, But for the most part you will leave with a transmission whether you need it or not. You gte hit with the "we have to take it apart to see whats wrong" Then you get the call that if you dont' want them to fix it becuae the price is too high, they give you a bucket of parts back. Used transmission is a more economical way to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricearu Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 my uncle had that happen to him at an ammco. I won't touch the place with a 10 foot stick. My uncle is a diesel cat tech. He diagnosed the transmission as one thing, using pressure gauges and info found online. Their stupid tech (not all are stupid, i know) "couldn't figure out" what was wrong with a GM 4T60. What a clot. They gave him the same speech, that they would have to take it apart to figure it out. they told him he needed a whole new one, and when he refused they gave him a box of parts with junkyard markings on the trans case. HE THREW A FIT, told the guy to find his transmission or he would kick his @$$. My uncle is 6'6" 275 with caterpillar field tech build. He "one mans" hydraulic cylinders like a champ. anyways, Low and behold, it was on a shelf in the back with the front pump already replaced in it. Sneaky dirtbags. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike104 Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 Yeah, I have heard lots of horror stories about AAMCO. They rebuilt my transmission on my Dodge Caravan. They stupidly offered me a lifetime warranty, no mileage restrictions. Foolishly I bought it. After they had rebuilt the transmission 3 times on their dime (over the next 5 yrs) I figure I got my $500 worth. Some (from Ford Exploder board) have suggested using a shop that is part of ATRA: http://www.atra.com/ I have no experience with these shops but agree that a used one is probably the best option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 ATRA is a good place to start but still be cautous, I'm surprised about the warrenty, as usually it is the lifetime of the original tranny, not of the sale Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jp98 Posted March 16, 2012 Author Share Posted March 16, 2012 It looks like I can go 100 miles to the east or 100 miles to the west of me to find one of their approved shops. I do have a shop a couple of miles from me that subscribes to their technical stuff but is just a automotive repair shop. I may have to stop by them and see if I can pick their brain a little. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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