MilesAway1980 Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 Hi All, I'm working on a 1987 Subaru GL with a 1.8 FI motor. It's my friend's car, so I don't have a lot of experience with it, or Subarus in general. She said she had been having issues with it not starting lately, although it would eventually start and then be fine for a few days. Yesterday, she was leaving my house and while backing up the car quit and died and wouldn't start again. The engine cranks but won't start. It doesn't even sound like it's trying to. I started looking things over to see what it might be and it looked like the ignition was in desperate need of a tuneup. The battery cables were corroded, and the terminals were cracked and split. The spark plugs looked like they hadn't been replaced in a long time and looked like they'd been burned (they were white and ashy), and the distributor cap and rotor were very corroded. So, I replaced the spark plugs, plug wires, battery cables, distributor cap, rotor, and the oxygen sensor. The engine still wouldn't start. I pulled one of the spark plugs out and grounded it to the frame and cranked it and it was getting spark. The fuel pump and fuel filter were recently replaced, and while cranking the engine, I could smell gas, so I assume it was getting fuel. I don't know how to check on a fuel injected engine (I mostly work on carburetors). I also tried the coil from my truck since I knew it was good and it didn't make any difference. What could it be? Thanks for any help. This is my friend and her fiance's only car, so they're pretty stuck without it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The FNG Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 Timing belts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbone Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 He posted this on Nasioc and I directed him here. I mentioned t-belts and added a link to the procedure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilesAway1980 Posted March 19, 2012 Author Share Posted March 19, 2012 Thanks for the reply and for the link to the write-up! I appreciate it. I'm glad you posted that over here because I forgot to set it up for email notifications over on Nasioc. I'll check the distributor when I get home tonight. Hopefully that's it since it doesn't seem like too difficult of a job to take care of. Would I still get spark on the spark plug if the distributor wasn't turning though? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desertsubaru Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 You will not get any spark if the Disty does not turn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The FNG Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 Are you sure the plug wires are in the correct order? motor: 3 4 1 2 disty: 3 1 2 4 I think this is right. May need to look it up. By the way, this is looking from the front of the car (standing at the front bumper). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilesAway1980 Posted March 20, 2012 Author Share Posted March 20, 2012 Thanks for the responses everyone. Tapped the starter and the distributor turned like it should. Also, the spark plug wires are the same as they were when it was running and are how you labeled them. (Thanks for that FNG, it's always good to double check.) Followed this write-up, it was really helpful. http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/...ht=timing+belt Pulled the covers of the timing belts and checked them. The belts looked good and everything looked like it was lined up just right. When the driver's side cam mark was straight up, the passenger side cam mark was straight down. Then, when I pulled the little cover of the engine timing hole, the 3 hash marks were lined up with the pointer. At this point, the distributor was pointing 180° away from cylinder #1. I turned the crank clockwise until the timing marks came up and the pointer was pointing to 20°. At this point, the distributor was pointing directly at the #1 cylinder. Unless I'm missing something, it seems like the timing belts are lined up right, and the distributor is pointing where it should be. Correct? What next? I'm not sure what the next thing to check would be. Thanks everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbone Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 (edited) Not sure with this year, but see if you can spin the disty rotor by hand. Later years had a screw that holds the rotor to the shaft and they have been known to fall out (ask me how I know). Another possible thing is the coil. You may be getting spark, but it also may not be hot enough. I would swap it out with another one to rule it out. Edited March 20, 2012 by Turbone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKghandi Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 Any codes? theres a write up on how to check them but I'm on my iPod and I'm not sure how to post links.. Logic predicts if it's getting spark and compression all it needs is fuel.(it is getting Compression right?) Check the intake snorkus for leaks if it's leaking it will cause a no start.The Maf is very important on these cars, but it should run with it unpluged. puts it into a default limp home mode IIRC. I've seen mafs cause all kind of problems. Never hurts to check. Hope you figure it out! My $0.02 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilesAway1980 Posted March 20, 2012 Author Share Posted March 20, 2012 The cap and rotor are new. The rotor is the screw in style, so it's solid. The coil's something I thought of so I tried a newer performance coil from my truck that I know is good and it still didn't start. I could try a new coil, but thought this was a good test. The coils also tested out the same with an ohm meter. Should I still try a new one? Anything else that may come into play? Some relay? The ECU? Also, the fuel pump and fuel filter are new but how can I test them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilesAway1980 Posted March 20, 2012 Author Share Posted March 20, 2012 (edited) I haven't done a compression check, but I have a tester, so I should do it. Also, I've been looking around for how to check codes, but haven't been able to find it. I'll see if I can still scrounge it up. The band that held the intake tubing to the intake was completely loose, but the hose was tight on the intake. I tightened it anyway. It was one of the first things I did, so it must not've made any difference. I'll look over the rest of the intake to see if there's any leaks, but most everything looks in really nice shape. Edited March 20, 2012 by MilesAway1980 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKghandi Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/showthread.php?t=49918 It took a little longer to figure it out but there you go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilesAway1980 Posted March 20, 2012 Author Share Posted March 20, 2012 Thanks for locating that for me! I spent a good 45 minutes last night using the search function on both here and Google and could honestly not find a single write up on how to pull codes. I was getting pretty aggravated. I appreciate it. (Of course, now that I see where it's located, it makes sense. ) I'll see if I can pull some codes tonight when I'm home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kerandt Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 Hey MilesAway1980. Did you install the new fuel pump? Just wondering if a carb pump got put on instead of a FI one as the pressure requirements would be different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilesAway1980 Posted March 20, 2012 Author Share Posted March 20, 2012 I didn't. My friend said she had it done at a shop. However, I was wondering about the fuel pump as I was mulling over ideas last night. The old spark plugs were ashy white, so I know it hasn't been getting enough fuel. I wonder if the fuel pump's just not delivering enough, or maybe the fuel filter (although shiny new) may have plugged up with more junk and not enough is getting through. How do you check for proper fuel flow on an FI engine? If it were a carb, I'd just pull the fuel line and crank it and see if gas squirted out, but we're talking 40+ vs. 6 PSI. I imagine it'll come out with a lot more force if everything's working right. :-p If it had a carb pump, would it run at all? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kerandt Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 On second thought the connections on the pumps are different. FI being smaller. So not likely they put on the wrong pump. But a pressure regulator could be to blame. So it looks like you will need to test the fuel pressure. Have you tried spraying starter fluid in the intake just to rule out no fuel as being the problem? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilesAway1980 Posted March 20, 2012 Author Share Posted March 20, 2012 (edited) I haven't tried starting fluid yet. Never really needed it so it's not something I keep on hand. I'll pick some up since that would be a good thing to check. Where in the intake would I spray it? How do you check fuel pressure? I've seen a valve stem on the fuel line. At the risk of sounding ignorant, can you test the pressure on those with a regular tire pressure gauge? Edited March 20, 2012 by MilesAway1980 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
czny Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 Just another thought - if the fuel lines are backward it won't start. Just tripped myself up on that one.;) The line from the fuel pump thru the fuel filter goes to fitting on the side of the throttle body. The return line goes to the pressure regulator. Hooked up backward & you won't have any fuel pressure to the injector. All this in the FSM under SPFI fuel injection(2-7, pg. 8, fig.10). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilesAway1980 Posted March 20, 2012 Author Share Posted March 20, 2012 Thanks for the idea, but I don't imagine that'd be the case. The car had been running for months before this, so it'd have to be something that went out on its own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
l75eya Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 Not sure if anybody mentioned this yet, but try seeing if it'll sputter or fire up briefly with some starter fluid sprayed into the intake. Be mindful of the engine backfiring while you're doing this however.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKghandi Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 Unplug the Maf and see if it starts if it does you know the Maf is bad. The Maf controls all the fuel to the motor. If its not working properly it won't start. And most of the time it won't give a code. Because its usually not broken but just severely out of spec. When my gl-10 broke down I was :banghead:for 3 weeks before I found out it was the Maf. Put a new one in and it runs 100% perfect now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilesAway1980 Posted March 20, 2012 Author Share Posted March 20, 2012 Not sure if anybody mentioned this yet, but try seeing if it'll sputter or fire up briefly with some starter fluid sprayed into the intake.Be mindful of the engine backfiring while you're doing this however.... Thanks for the suggestion. It was mentioned by kerandt just a few posts back. I'll be trying that tonight. Unplug the Maf and see if it starts if it does you know the Maf is bad.The Maf controls all the fuel to the motor. If its not working properly it won't start. And most of the time it won't give a code. Because its usually not broken but just severely out of spec. When my gl-10 broke down I was :banghead:for 3 weeks before I found out it was the Maf. Put a new one in and it runs 100% perfect now Where is the MAF located? Definitely worth a try! From what it sounds like, if the MAF isn't working and plugged in, it won't start. But if the MAF isn't working, and unplugged, it will start (just run poorly)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKghandi Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 Correct. It's located on the airbox. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BATLWGN Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 I haven't tried starting fluid yet. Never really needed it so it's not something I keep on hand. I'll pick some up since that would be a good thing to check.Where in the intake would I spray it? How do you check fuel pressure? I've seen a valve stem on the fuel line. At the rick of sounding ignorant, can you test the pressure on those with a regular tire pressure gauge? I didn't see an answer to this yet, but do NOT use a tire pressure gauge. you will need a true fuel pressure gauge which any big box auto store should have in their 'loan-a-tool'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilesAway1980 Posted March 20, 2012 Author Share Posted March 20, 2012 I didn't see an answer to this yet, but do NOT use a tire pressure gauge. you will need a true fuel pressure gauge which any big box auto store should have in their 'loan-a-tool'. Thanks! I didn't think so, but it's worth asking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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