BATLWGN Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 Not a problem. Better to ask than be sorry later. We all learn from others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilesAway1980 Posted March 21, 2012 Author Share Posted March 21, 2012 Alright, crummy weather kept me from getting too far yesterday, but I did try a few things. First off, I tried to pull codes but simply couldn't find anything that remotely looked like a computer under the steering wheel. Where is it located exactly? Do I have to remove the plastic paneling? Or should it be immediately accessible? Next, I tried unplugging the MAF and starting it, and it didn't make any difference. Still crank, crank, crank, without a single effort towards starting. One thing I did notice is that when I turn the car on, I can't hear the fuel pump prime. Should I be able to? I personally don't own a fuel injected car so I don't know how loud the sound is supposed to be. But, I had someone else turn the key on while I leaned down by the rear tire to listen, but I still couldn't hear anything. However, when I crank the engine, I can smell gas. I'll do further tests this evening, like renting a fuel pressure gauge, and drying the spark plugs and seeing if they get any fuel on them when I crank it. Do I need to crank the engine to build fuel pressure for the test? Or do I just need to turn the key on, making the pump prime? Thanks everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lilredjusty88 Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 yes you should be able to hear the fuel pump prime the engine, i have a 93 sedan and i always hear the pump run, and even on my carbed 83 sedan the pump can be heard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilesAway1980 Posted March 21, 2012 Author Share Posted March 21, 2012 I guess I should have said, I don't have a vehicle with an electric fuel pump. But... Hrm... Maybe that's it. The fuel pump is only a year or so old (and those things are expensive!) but I didn't hear anything when I turned it on. Could explain the intermittent non-starting and lean condition if the fuel pump was going out. Is there any way to double check the fuel pump? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ABawm 88 GL Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 I feel like it's really obvious and you have done this already but check the fuses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilesAway1980 Posted March 21, 2012 Author Share Posted March 21, 2012 Are there more fuses than the fuse panel next to the steering wheel? I visually inspected all of those, but I didn't double check any of them in particular. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKghandi Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 Hmm... Well have some one crank it and tap the fuel pump with a wrench usually it will come back to life. (not forever tho) Also check the wires for cracks or grounding Yes the ecu is behind the trim under the colum (if you were driving it would be right above your knees) That is the only fuse panel. But behind it there are relays. One of which controls the fuel pump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilesAway1980 Posted March 21, 2012 Author Share Posted March 21, 2012 Alright, I'll try that. Do they have to be cranking it? Or can I turn they key on, crawl underneath it, and tap on it and see if it whirrs to life? Okay, that's what I thought. I'll dig a little deeper and pull the plastic paneling off. Which relay is for the fuel pump? Can I check it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKghandi Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 I've found cranking it works the best because if it isn't cranking the fuel pump only gets power for a second to prime the system making it very difficult to turn it on jump out and tap I before it stops getting power. And I'm not sure which relay goes to the fuel pump but someone will chime in and add that info Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desertsubaru Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 Try running a jumper wire from the positive battery terminal to the fuel pump to see if it starts or if the pump runs. Try the starter fluid or pour a little gas down the intake to see if it starts then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
l75eya Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 (edited) Try running a jumper wire from the positive battery terminal to the fuel pump to see if it starts or if the pump runs. Try the starter fluid or pour a little gas down the intake to see if it starts then. Yeah if you get some life with starter fluid then you definitely know there is some type of fuel problem. Like was mentioned earlier, definitely just jump the fuel pump just to see if it's functioning, that way you'll further narrow down whether it's a mechanical issue (the pump not working) or some type of electrical issue (relays, fuses, wiring, etc). Should be easier to first just run power direct to the pump and listen. Be safe when working around your fuel tank. And to elaborate on pulling codes a little more; after you remove the plastic trim under the steering wheel, there's a mess of wires, and a metal plate with a small hole in the center. Turn the ignition to ON and you will see the light blink. Now you'll have located the diag. LED. To put the vehicle in diagnostic mode, connect the two white connectors under the hood on the driver's side and switch the key ON. The connectors are right next to the fuel filter. Edited March 21, 2012 by l75eya Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilesAway1980 Posted March 21, 2012 Author Share Posted March 21, 2012 Where's the best place on a fuel injected intake to pour the starting fluid? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desertsubaru Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 Open the air filter box and spray it up the intake hose that goes to the intake. Just a little will let you know if its going to fire or not. Give it about a 3 to 5 second burst. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
l75eya Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 And really do be wary of any backfiring. The safest way to do it would be to spray the starter fluid up in the hose as much as possible, and then close up the air-box again quickly so the magic liquid doesn't evaporate. I've had fireballs shoot out of the intake because of starter fluid and a back-fire lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilesAway1980 Posted March 22, 2012 Author Share Posted March 22, 2012 Well, I got some popping out of the exhaust with starting fluid that I wasn't getting before. Pulled the fuel filter off and it was full of fuel and when I blew through it it flowed freely. However, I ran a fuel line into a gas can and cranked it for a while and nothing came out. I don't think it's getting any gas at all. Time to crawl underneath and start looking at the fuel pump. Frustrating, since it's about 2 months past it's 1 year warranty. If it is the fuel pump, am I looking at another $250 to $300? Or do you know of a better place to get them? Also, I got to the ECU and when I turned on the key, it repeatedly only blinked 5 times. So, blink blink blink blink blink Pause Blink blink blink blink blink Pause Blink blink blink blink blink. Etc. What does that mean? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desertsubaru Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 It might not be the pump. Run the jumper wire as i stated before and see if it runs. If it does you have either a wiring problem or a relay problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naru Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 Check for power at the pump. Seems unlikely a pump would wear out after only a year. IIRC,5 blinks is merely an ID code.Nothing to worry about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilesAway1980 Posted March 22, 2012 Author Share Posted March 22, 2012 Okay, I ran some wires to the fuel pump and it jumped right to life. The fuse in the fuse block looked good, so what do I look for that's keeping the fuel pump from starting up? Where would the relay be? Thanks so much everyone, I couldn't have gotten this far without your help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
l75eya Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 Sounds like there's no codes for it to throw. Good to hear that the pump is still functioning. I'm not exactly sure myself where all the relays are for everything; saw somebody stated before that there are relays behind the fuses in the fuse-panel. There are also fusible links under the hood. Just touting info here, dunno if it is helpful or not. If you would like to PM me your email address, I can also send you the factory service manual for the car. Somebody will chime in here shortly with exactly where you have to look for the relays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subruise Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 remove ds kick panel/other panels. detatch fuseblock and pull it down out of the way (carefull not to damage stuff). the fp relay is up there above that stuff, near the firewall. the round one with a green connector is the one. there are others up there for your headlights. i was just in mine changing a HL relay and i saw it. HTH, RV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKghandi Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 I remember reading a post that said one of the screws inside the ecu came loose and was grounding out the fuel pump. And there a write up in the USRM on how to fix an ecu that doesn't kick on the fuel pump. Probably a wild goose chase but I've seen crazier problems.. Did you try starting it with the fuel pump hot wired? Would be nice to know if it did start. Would help narrow down the problem to the electric system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
czny Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 On my 87 GL wagon the fuel pump & ignition relays are mounted to a bracket directly above the ECU. The small light blue w black stripe wire on the fuel pump relay goes to pin 47 of the ECU. Just to test the relay & pump take a 12v test light & ground the clip then touch the probe to the LB/Blk relay connector with the ignition on. You should hear the relay click & fuel pump running. I was under the dash to wire in driving lights anyway so I tested this - it works. Grounding this wire might be the solution for the ECU problem 86gl-10trbosdn mentioned. Hope this helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilesAway1980 Posted March 24, 2012 Author Share Posted March 24, 2012 Sorry I didn't get back to your replies on this sooner. I tried to get on the other day and I think the whole sight was down for a day or so. Before I try starting it while jumping the fuel pump, I need to double check to be sure I didn't do something wrong. When I jumped the fuel pump before, there was a little bit of smoke and electrical smell inside the car. What would have caused that?? Nothing seemed any different, so I don't think it damaged anything, but still, that's never a good thing. I didn't see any markings on the pump about a positive or negative terminal. Is there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivans imports Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 Check for injector pulse should click and spray feul everytime engine is cranked most loose injector pulse not spark distruibutor must be grounded coil must be grounded coil bracket and ig mod must be grounded. Sounds like you smoked the feul pump realy is on top of coulom silver realy with red and bule wires next two brown ignition realy check that plug is not partialy pulled of the brown realy happens cause wires are short. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilesAway1980 Posted March 24, 2012 Author Share Posted March 24, 2012 (edited) Check for injector pulse should click and spray feul everytime engine is cranked most loose injector pulse not spark distruibutor must be grounded coil must be grounded coil bracket and ig mod must be grounded. Sounds like you smoked the feul pump realy is on top of coulom silver realy with red and bule wires next two brown ignition realy check that plug is not partialy pulled of the brown realy happens cause wires are short. Let me make sure I understood this correctly: Check for injector pulse. Should click and spray fuel every time the engine is cranked. Most lose injector pulse, not spark. Distributor must be grounded. Coil must be grounded. Coil bracket and ignition module must be grounded. Sounds like you smoked the fuel pump relay. It is on top of the column and is a silver relay with red and blue wires and is next to the brown ignition relay. Check that the plug is not partially pulled off of the brown relay. It happens because the wires are short. Edited March 24, 2012 by MilesAway1980 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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