Hydraulic lash adjuster maintenance

[johnceggleston]

if you only need 1, or maybe 2, and you are in a hurry, and the local store has them get new. but used is a good solution. these are not a common fail item. they do need servicing every 150k (?) miles or so, but it's not like every owner is buying these for every car that has them. this is a ''once in the life of the car'' issue.

 

i would ask someone here if they have a couple, for cheap. buy more than you think you need just in case. you can probably get a complete set for $20 ? when i had this problem, i just replaced the whole rocker assembly (with 125k miles), but i already had it on hand. 40k later and still no problems.

 

i would take apart the other side and put all bad HLAs on the same side, maybe the same cylinder (not sure about this.). that way if it does not pump up, you will only have to take one side apart in the future to make repairs .

 

 

good luck.

[glkiller2]

So I took off the other side and those are fine (#1 and #3 pistons)

The collapsed one I got to pump up with a bit of coercing. BUT it has a little slop in the check ball so it squishes a TOUCH. I'm gonna put gas through it to see if I can get it solid then repump with oil.

I read a post that said any old o-ring that FIT would do, does the color matter?(mine are orange) Seams like they could be Temperature rating color coded but not sure. Would black ones work as well?

[GeneralDisorder]

Throw in solid lifter cams and rocker assemblies from a 97/98, adjust the intakes to .008 and exhaust to .010 and call it good. Drive it till it dies.

 

The wear you describe sounds minor. Does it use copius amounts of oil? If not then run it till the rods let go.

 

EJ22's are worthless. The time and effort to rebuild one is wasted when you could rebuild a 2.5 short block for the same money and do a high-compression build. 180+ HP and the same or better fuel economy due to the high compression.

 

You can easily find EJ22's with under 150k for around the $500 neighborhood if you look and just have some patience. A simple visual inspection under the valve covers, check for crank end play, etc is all that's required - and most yards have compression numbers for them. Buy one, put it in, and treat it nicely. Probably get another 200k from it easily.

 

I've done the cost/benefit analysis on this and I've done it both ways - the used engines are always cheaper and the gamble is well worth it. I've dropped dozens of used tested engine and NOT ONE has come back.

 

GD

[GeneralDisorder]

I read a post that said any old o-ring that FIT would do, does the color matter?(mine are orange) Seams like they could be Temperature rating color coded but not sure. Would black ones work as well?

 

O-ring color is *somtimes* an indication of the material it's made from. But not always.

 

Orange is *usually* silicone. Which is a MUCH higher temp rated o-ring than Buna-n, Viton, or HNBR. It's about the highest temp rated o-ring that's commonly availible. You generally don't see Orange or Blue in any other type of material. But color is NOT a scientific measure of composition.

 

GD

[glkiller2]

Solid lifters- good idea, but sounds like another $100 thing I don't really need:) (still got those heads remember? )

 

gonna fix these lifters and try to drive some more...

 

I found a 90 suby closeby with 100K for $600 I'm gonna look at next week, it doesn't run but it sounds like it could be a simple fuel delivery issue (filter).

Might grab it for a future swap.

 

Sound like a plan man?

[Fairtax4me]

The main thing is they have to be oil resistant.

You can get them at a dealer for a couple bucks. Part number 13396AA000

[glkiller2]

O-ring color is *somtimes* an indication of the material it's made from. But not always.

 

Orange is *usually* silicone. Which is a MUCH higher temp rated o-ring than Buna-n, Viton, or HNBR. It's about the highest temp rated o-ring that's commonly availible. You generally don't see Orange or Blue in any other type of material. But color is NOT a scientific measure of composition.

 

GD

 

ty

[glkiller2]

The main thing is they have to be oil resistant.

You can get them at a dealer for a couple bucks. Part number 13396AA000

 

TYTY for the number RAD

 

 

I love this forum:)

[glkiller2]

So, I'm gonna take that part number to suby dealer and get new rings for 15 of the lifters.

I'm going to order 1 lifter from them if I can, if not various stores said they could get me one for under $20 by Wednesday.

 

When putting it back together, the PDF and Haynes say to keep the lifters and the assembly fully oil primed by keeping it in an upright position.

Some responses here have sounded like it's not such a big deal as the oil pump will get the parts primed EVENTUALLY.

 

So here's what concerns me:

IF Fully pumped and primed when I put them back on will they not hold the valves that want to ride at less than max plunger depth open? at least momentarily?

 

IF NOT primed how long will it take to pump to fill assembly and bleed out the air until all works correctly? This to me sounds like beating the bejeebus out of the lifters and not opening the valves all the way until I get oil pressure AND clear the air bubbles out.

 

Basically, what's it gonna do when I start it, what should I expect? A couple misfires?

Maybe leave PCV hoses off in case valves don't seal right away?

[johnceggleston]

expect your engine to run fine and make more noise than usual. the noise should go away with time.

 

i THINK, i have read something about locating the ''check valves'' in the adjuster towards the oil galley in the rocker assembly. this simply, or maybe necessarily, makes it easier for the oil to get to the adjuster.

 

with used engines that have been sitting it can take hours? for the clatter to go away. i would expect recently cleaned and primed adjuster to take minutes at the most. but worst case, it makes noise while you drive it for a day or two. lots of engines have done this with no ill effects.

[Quidam]

 

IF NOT primed how long will it take to pump to fill assembly and bleed out the air until all works correctly? This to me sounds like beating the bejeebus out of the lifters and not opening the valves all the way until I get oil pressure AND clear the air bubbles out.

 

 

Hey,

 

I've been reading this and here's some thoughts. If not primed, how much time? Hummmm.There is the cold tick, the random tick, lick all the time tick, and other ticks.

 

In an EA 82 what gets beat on is the cam lobes. If a lash adjuster is collapsed, that's a nominal .040" clearance it now has. About the same as the spark plug clearance. And yes, that means less lift, less power.

 

Whatever gets into the lash adjuster past the check ball is supposed to leave there past the plunger walls and not back through the ball. There is also a magnetic spring in the chamber past the ball. I've seen/witnessed metal clinging around there. Whatever gets past the checkball causes problems, silicone bits or whatever. And yes, I've witnessed a lot of varnash in them. The kind of stuff I'd preferr to remove in a chem dip.

 

Anyway, good luck. What does a set of rebuilds for this go for?

 

Some of these things, nothing less than a full teardown and cleaning can fix, IMO.

 

Unless they're just too worn.

 

Doug

[glkiller2]

Hey,

 

 

Anyway, good luck. What does a set of rebuilds for this go for?

 

 

Doug

 

ty what do you mean rebuilds?

 

the new HLAs are around $20 each

 

I've read that some dealers will only sell 16 at a time (lame)

 

parts stores said no prob mid week. (sounded like everyone was seeing the same one in Spokane Wa.)

 

Anyways I'm hoping the stealership has them better faster harder":)

[Quidam]

This company lists EA 82 and buckets. Says to call them if what I have isn't listed.

 

http://www.mizpahprecision.com/pricing.htm

 

Doug

[glkiller2]

SO GET THIS!

 

Subaru of Bend

 

Lifter - $27 - parts stores were $16-$25

 

not bad okay I'll do that...

 

O-rings - r u sitting down? $3.45 EACH X 16 (In case I break one or something)

 

you heard right guys and gals $55 dollars for all the o-rings UNREAL.

 

I went ahead and did it. Could prob save $30 if I dug around the internet but at least I can trust that the ones I ordered are right for the job.

 

OOOOOOOOUUUUUUUUUUUCCCCCCCCCCCCHHHHH:)

[glkiller2]

Quid- I only needed one and want to be very sure it's got all the right specs. I'm willing to pay extra (gulp) to make sure I got the right part in this case.

 

Now please don't think I get all my parts there, far from it.

 

I'm now ready for a few posts of lashing from other members saying I paid too much shoulda done this, that, called this cousin, blah blah

zzz

 

BTW- a couple posts here have mentioned EA82, just a reminder this is for an EJ22. I understand though, most info here is probably good for both.

Edited March 26, 2012 by glkiller2

[ivans imports]

Had one come back with lifter stuck out held valve open just enuff to burn theese lifters can stick out just as easy as they can stick in make shure they can move before you put them in

[glkiller2]

Had one come back with lifter stuck out held valve open just enuff to burn theese lifters can stick out just as easy as they can stick in make shure they can move before you put them in

 

TY for that

It contradicts the books though. In order for them to be able to move they must not have oil in the lifters.

Would you suggest priming the rocker assembly as much as possible?

 

If you have experience doing it that way can you tell me about how long they take to pump up? Fastest time? Longest time?

Would it be a good idea to crank the motor over for say 30 seconds without letting it start? If the pump can make any progress at that slow speed?

Say disconnect spark or power to EFI?

Anyone else want to chime in on that?

Edited March 26, 2012 by glkiller2

[Quidam]

SO GET THIS!

 

Subaru of Bend

 

Lifter - $27 - parts stores were $16-$25

 

not bad okay I'll do that...

 

O-rings - r u sitting down? $3.45 EACH X 16 (In case I break one or something)

 

you heard right guys and gals $55 dollars for all the o-rings UNREAL.

 

I went ahead and did it. Could prob save $30 if I dug around the internet but at least I can trust that the ones I ordered are right for the job.

 

OOOOOOOOUUUUUUUUUUUCCCCCCCCCCCCHHHHH:)

 

Wow. Rock Auto plus shipping of course.

 

1992 SUBARU LEGACY 2.2L H4 : Engine : Valve Adjuster WikiPriceAlternateBECK/ARNLEY Part # 0227001

Hydraulic, Exhaust

Hydraulic, Intake

Choose: [Wholesaler Closeout - Private Label Pkg. - 30 Day Warranty] (Only 1 Remaining) ($5.69) ^[Wholesaler Closeout -- 30 Day Warranty] ($5.69) ^[Regular Inventory] ($10.72)^ Ships from same location as parts in cart$5.69

 

 

 

1992 SUBARU LEGACY 2.2L H4 : Engine : Valve Lifter WikiPriceAlternateDNJ ENGINE COMPONENTS Part # LIF408

$7.84Add Part BGA Part # HL6377 Hydraulic; Outer Diameter [mm]: 12

Estate$11.72Add Part SEALED POWER Part # HT2254 Lifter

Hyd. lash adj.

$14.01

[glkiller2]

That's 1 price lashing post AHAHAH

 

BUT! Those parts DO NOT exactly match the one I'm holding in my hand.

Various but probably important differences.

TOP-

the side hole is located on a chamfer that the original does not have, the hole is half on the outside surface, half on the FLAT smaller diameter, also that surface appears too wide to my machinist eye.

 

Middle-

Looks ok from what I can SEE but who knows what grade steel and other components r used

 

Bottom-

I would not buy this part.

The machining is rougher than the others and again the side hole location is all wrong AND lol out of round (the chamfer moved the drill point probably, drill FIRST, then turn), there is no chamfer there and that outter diameter the hole is next to is not wide enough. Look closely at the cap end by the plunger and you will see it is different has a dif roll to it.

 

also I know I'm looking at pics but the plunger radius on the end does not seem as pronounced.

Oil journals on the pics are various sizes as well

 

I KNOW I'm getting what the engineers specified from the dealer.

 

I also know that these ALL would probably work, for how long, who knows?

 

But thanks very much for your input Quidam, I think others will benefit from more info rather than less:)

Edited March 26, 2012 by glkiller2

[GeneralDisorder]

o-rings can be measured and I would have just done that and ordered generic silicone units of the correct size.

 

The DNJ engine components brand would be my choice. I've used a lot of their parts without issue.

 

But then if it were me I would just swap out the whole rocker assembly for a good used one.

 

This isn't rocket science - and we aren't building swiss watches or nukes here.

 

GD

[glkiller2]

So GD since your here, what about priming?

Put them in with air so they can adjust?

Or pre-prime like the book says and hope they retract into adjustment quickly.

 

I know it's not a rocket. Thanks for that.

 

On oring measuring, Mine r almost 300K old and are likely to stretch when taken off, also the OD I gotta say CANNOT be to spec on a 300K oring. So I would at least need to see a spec one in order to get it right. Correct me if I'm wrong, it happens, fairly often...

Edited March 26, 2012 by glkiller2

[Quidam]

That's 1 price lashing post AHAHAH

 

BUT! Those parts DO NOT exactly match the one I'm holding in my hand.

Various but probably important differences.

TOP-

the side hole is located on a chamfer that the original does not have, the hole is half on the outside surface, half on the FLAT smaller diameter, also that surface appears too wide to my machinist eye.

 

Middle-

Looks ok from what I can SEE but who knows what grade steel and other components r used

 

Bottom-

I would not buy this part.

The machining is rougher than the others and again the side hole location is all wrong AND lol out of round (the chamfer moved the drill point probably, drill FIRST, then turn), there is no chamfer there and that outter diameter the hole is next to is not wide enough. Look closely at the cap end by the plunger and you will see it is different has a dif roll to it.

 

also I know I'm looking at pics but the plunger radius on the end does not seem as pronounced.

Oil journals on the pics are various sizes as well

 

I KNOW I'm getting what the engineers specified from the dealer.

 

I also know that these ALL would probably work, for how long, who knows?

 

But thanks very much for your input Quidam, I think others will benefit from more info rather than less:)

 

Yea, and thanks for your response. Only EJ I have or have worked on is a bare dual port NOS head. Here's hoping others benefit even more with what I gather isn't common Subie Knowledge...or just wrong information.

 

According to the parts book listings, these lash adjusters were used in Mazda, Geo, Suziki...and some others. IE, that makes it a common part from multiple sources.

 

Is that right?

 

Doug

[glkiller2]

Well as GD points out it's not a rocket all of these would probably work. But as a guy who's worked in machine shops, and taken a couple years of schooling on it, I know that reverse engineering parts from OEM things DO get changed. Spring tensions, o-rings, metal types. I keep in mind that every machine shop is in business to make money.

 

But to the point, what does it matter?

It matters to me, does it matter to you?

[Quidam]

Well as GD points out it's not a rocket all of these would probably work. But as a guy who's worked in machine shops, and taken a couple years of schooling on it, I know that reverse engineering parts from OEM things DO get changed. Spring tensions, o-rings, metal types. I keep in mind that every machine shop is in business to make money.

 

But to the point, what does it matter?

It matters to me, does it matter to you?

 

I'm not getting the GD part, if you know what I mean.

 

That brings up spring tension of the springs at 300,000 or whatever mileage. BTW, I've wondered if Mitzpa puts springs in the lifters they rebuild.

 

Otherwise, good luck with it!

 

Doug

[GeneralDisorder]

The OEM o-ring most likely has the size written on the part number label. That's typically how Subaru does things. So you could order a single one and get the size.... or possibly the parts people would tell you the size.

 

It's most likely a nominal size and it's pretty easy to take some caliper measurements off the parts, and the thickness of the o-ring and infer the size from that. Again - you have to realize that they aren't going to use a special size for most of this stuff - as Quidam points out this same lifter is used on many models and when engineer's design stuff they often reuse components like lifters that are already availible to decrease the cost.

 

GD