"Ghost Walking"

[ivans imports]

I putt my money on loose rear sus parts I test drive 40 subarus a week in snow and ice all behave differently depending on tires air preshures. And #1 how loose the rear suspention is the rear of a awd car is more prone to handling problems if any rear bushing / strut is loose at all. As far as the awd units go not near as many problems with that as there used to be I thought the newer cars they sorted it out. But the awd cars always had a push me pull me feel to them on slippery roads since day one standard cars were not as bad as the auto ones

[ThoughtIWasAHappy]

This problem is NOT fixed! I've had out 2015 outback not even 4 months. Felt like back was swaying out here and there...but each time it was a short trip...and I just figured I guess its icy...other times its fine...compact snow fine...snow GREAT....but glare ice....No.

 

Today we had plans to travel to Calgary Alberta....got on the old hwy 43...and sure enough get up to 60...then 70..km/hr and fishtailing sensation...back and forth a good 2+ inches each side...constant...had to do everything in our power to keep it from spinning right out. All other cars buzzing past not having any issues. We changed drivers to see if maybe it was just that...same problem. So fricken scary! Get turned around and it seemed okay...got a few more kms onto a different road on the way home same rear end going all over the place...driving straight with what seemed like mininal ice on the road. Took it to the subaru dealership Asap...same day they test drove it did it for them too...now my new subaru which I bought because of the icy roads and long winters here is sitting in shop and my confidence is shattered. Now what?

[ThoughtIWasAHappy]

I also I might add running nokian hakkapeliitta studded tires...which have only one season on them!!! I'm just baffled and dismayed by what I experienced today..not sure where to turn.  And I don't even have 7000kms on this car yet.

Edited January 7, 2015 by ThoughtIWasAHappy

[ThoughtIWasAHappy]

Anyone? have any input about my above post? So we took our car home after it had its 5 hour long scan at dealership to see what was wrong....it came up clean. It appears all tires had 10 to high pressure...not great but mechanic said he didn't feel that really played a role in what he felt when he drove it. The aliment was also slightly turned in, which could create some issues, but again mechanic said not likely reason for severe over acting in the rear. That's what he called what he felt, back end was severely over acting....?? whatever that means, I am not mechanically minded. But logically I would think AWD should not react this way. 

 

Drove home car was being its awesome self. But weather, road conditions had changed...it had snowed, but light snow which was blowing clear off the pavement mostly but there def was fine layer of ice as it was a lovely -19c. No slipping...even tried to push it to see if it would lose traction in rear, nope nadda...infact I felt I could safely travel faster than most. On side roads I also tried to get car to spin out around corners...nope it wasn't having any of it. So I am severely confused. 

 

Now don't think its fix cause this is no different than before getting car realigned and tire pressure fixed. Car is 90% superior I find. I never have issues starting stopping at intersections...often I find I have superior winter road abilities in this car compared to others driving around me. But then out of nowhere I have ZERO rear control. Slowing down doesn't fix...I still feel it its just that I am able to struggle to correct each swish easier going slower. And looking around I see no one else having ANY issues. But my car is 100% unable to be driven during these times. So is it just icy roads, I think  not if FWD vehcles are able to drive as normal...its clearly not just driver error....yesterday when it became very bad me, my husband and mechanic could not control that rear end!! Is it during some weather the "Mechanics" of this car are just unsuitable ? I hate to say yes cause were does that leave me....with a 3month old car that I still owe 20,000+ on? I don't know what else to do?? 

 

So where we left it is, drive the car...see if we have problem come up again, I feel it will...mechanic doesn't think its fixed but there's no seen problem with car when looked over...clearly there's a problem. I just don't know?? Wish someone could weigh in on this.

[ThoughtIWasAHappy]

As it stands now I feel like I have one of the best cars most of the time, aside from the fact every now and then it becomes the scariest vehicle I have ever driven ...for no reason at all. I live in flat alberta....roads run straight...yet my car only want's to do figure 8's no No reason!

[vw_man99]

Have driven Audi Quattro's for 20+ years and brought my first Subaru (06 Legacy 2.5i) about four years ago with 50K on it just for a change. This lose backend issue occurs in snow/rain so car needs to be driven with great caution. Last year all four struts and rear wheel bearing were replaced followed by Continental PureContacts. This has helped somewhat but the car is no where as stable as my previous Audi Quattro's and VW 4Motion's (sorry for the comparison). I had hoped my first experience with a Subaru would be more positive but am lost for what else to do.  I will try putting in the FWD fuse as suggested. I have always done majority of the mechanical/electrical repairs so not a newbie to car repair and wanted some more details of ShawnW suggestion of clutch pack replacement. Thanks.

[Fairtax4me]

Its not going to be fixed as long as they still use the same multi-link rear suspension design they started using in 05. 

 

Pre-05 models don't have this problem because the rear suspension is a simpler design and less prone to camber/toe changes when the suspension moves. 

[crazyhorse001]

Maybe i'm just plain odd for thinking this but NO car is going to be good on glare ice. A subtle crosswind can change the path of the most surefooted vehicle in those conditions. The newer outbacks are substantially bigger than the old ones. This could be creating a sail effect.

 

I'm not discounting mechanical causes on some older cars, but the earlier poster with a brand new car shouldnt have this kind of issue IF the wind isnt blowing.

 

Ive driven all manner of subies up to the 2000 models, in all manner of conditions. On ice, none were great. I had to slow down a lot. It really sounds like an overconfidence issue to me. 60kph is too fast on ice unless you're in a tracked vehicle, or have chains on.

[CNY_Dave]

My 03 LL bean used to be great on glare ice, wet ice, you name it.

 

Now it's a bit of a ghostwalker, even with good snows.

 

The steering has that 'eager to move off center' feeling familiar from previous cars I've had when I've loaded the heck out of the rear.

I think my springs must be sagging after 250,000 miles.

[vw_man99]

Not talking about ice, just road snow and good amount of rain as other cars zip past. The back end is just too easy to let loose. Car has been checked out for ball-joints and bushings with no issues found. As mentioned, have plenty of experience with quattros, 4-motions and land-rover variations of AWD with no issues. I can't believe this car acted this way when new.

[idosubaru]

under warranty - have alingment checked? 

 

Subaru offered updated alignment spec's for 05-09 outbacks for this issue....

[vw_man99]

My 06 Legacy had four wheel alignment when shocks were replaced about 18 months ago. I plan to take it in for another alignment (not at the dealer)

Does anyone have the revised specs to ensure they are using the updated spec?

[MariaB]

I have 2016 Legacy, my first Subaru, which I also thought I loved until I drove it in winter, which was precisely why I bought it! The back end started ghost walking, or to me, felt like it was going to fishtail out of control.  My husband thought it was me until he drove it and the same thing happened.  All the other cars were flying by us on relatively clear roads and we were crawling doing 40, especially going under the underpasses.  Granted, it was winter with some snow on the roads, but my Kia Sorento never had these kinds of issues in snow.

Last night I was driving in really heavy rain and the car kept ghost walking on me, to the point I was really concerned with driving my daughter in the car.  Now I just want to trade it in and get a different vehicle because I don't feel safe but financially we can't.  I'm going to try sandbags and new tires but it pisses me off that the car is marketed for safety and I can't even do 40 in the rain without feeling like I might die.  Don't think I'll be buying a second Subaru, which makes me sad, because other than feeling like a death trap in the winter, I really love my car.

 

[brus brother]

I replied to this post a few years back:

Last winter I experienced horrendous handling in my 05 OB and at first I thought the ghost had taken up residence in my car.

Turns out the alignment was way off. The four corners of the car were fighting each other for supremacy.

New tires/balance and alignment and the ghost was exorcised.

Just sayin' if you hear something clip-clopping down the road, chances are it is a horse and not a zebra.

Common things occur commonly.

•  

[el_freddo]

@MariaB, have you thought about looking into the clutch packs as suggested by ShawnW in the first post?

I'm guessing this is an automatic transmission issue as no one has piped up saying their manual is doing it - and a manual doesn't use clutch packs for the rear drive. 

All the best MariaB. I hope you get it sorted!

Cheers

Bennie

[AKMom]

We bought a 2002 Manual Outback Wagon for our daughter. Has 117k miles on it. Started ghostwalking a while ago, but just now figured out that’s probably the problem (thought it was operator error since a teenage girl drives it most of the time). Have limited options when it comes to really knowledagle, trustworthy mechanics in my small town. Want to go to the mechanic with specific things to check because they are basically kids and won’t check things unless you tell them to.  Can someone confirm this order of troubleshooting:

1. Tires

2. Alignment

3. Struts

Thinking if these don’t work, we’ll try the FWD fuse fix. Thoughts?

-AKMom

Edited December 17, 2018 by AKMom

[brus brother]

Sounds about right. Start with the simplest.

1. Tires (same size and make), check tire pressure, check tire balance, check wear patterns.

2. Alignment (In my case this was critical)

An alignment shop should be able to assess if any of the suspension is way off.

I would expect that with your car's vintage/mileage there is going to be some normal wear in suspension, so don't be alarmed into replacing too many elements at first.

Are there any audible noises when going over bumps? 

Edited December 17, 2018 by brus brother

[Mike104]

2 hours ago, AKMom said:

We bought a 2002 Manual Outback Wagon for our daughter. Has 117k miles on it. Started ghostwalking a while ago, but just now figured out that’s probably the problem (thought it was operator error since a teenage girl drives it most of the time). Have limited options when it comes to really knowledagle, trustworthy mechanics in my small town. Want to go to the mechanic with specific things to check because they are basically kids and won’t check things unless you tell them to.  Can someone confirm this order of troubleshooting:

1. Tires

2. Alignment

3. Struts

Thinking if these don’t work, we’ll try the FWD fuse fix. Thoughts?

-AKMom

I had a similar issue on an 03 Forester the back end would move typically when I shifted gears.  Eventually I found that the lateral link bolt had worn the hole in the wheel knuckle so that the wheel was free to move back and forth.  Took a while to find it.  The metal piece where the bolt goes through was oblong.  This is a picture of a new lateral link bolt with after market lateral links but the wheel knuckle is the same.

 

[tycruise84]

Never experienced ghost walking before. 

[Subuhrue]

What is the suggested clutch kit for replacement? A brand new OEM kit or performance aftermarket?

@ShawnW

[CNY_Dave]

10 hours ago, tycruise84 said:

Never experienced ghost walking before. 

If you aren't hitting ice, you never will, even if all the bushings are worn, struts are worn, and tires are crap.

The 'push' to the side is very small and even a tiny bit of side-side traction will absorb it easily.

[idosubaru]

20 hours ago, AKMom said:

We bought a 2002 Manual Outback Wagon for our daughter. Has 117k miles on it. Started ghostwalking a while ago, but just now figured out that’s probably the problem (thought it was operator error since a teenage girl drives it most of the time). Have limited options when it comes to really knowledagle, trustworthy mechanics in my small town. Want to go to the mechanic with specific things to check because they are basically kids and won’t check things unless you tell them to.  Can someone confirm this order of troubleshooting:

1. Tires

2. Alignment

3. Struts

Thinking if these don’t work, we’ll try the FWD fuse fix. Thoughts?

-AKMom

Keep in mind 2002s are not like 2005+.

Ideally, describe your symptoms and go from there rather than referencing “ghost walking” which has specific 2005+ connotations  

*** Does it do it on dry pavement or only snow/ice?

1. Alignment. 

2. Rear struts and springs - use KYB struts.  

Baja turbo rear springs are a little stiffer and give 1/2” lift in the rear if you carry/tow a lot they’re a good option.

* look at each wheel - does one rear wheel seem to be sagging a slight bit lower than the other side?  Measure them if you have to.  If one is lower than the other side your springs and struts should be repacked. 

3. Rear bushings.  They’re likely frozen and should be inspected during the alignment. Alignment often can’t be properly adjusted until those bushings and arms are replaced.  Ideally a good alignment tech is on it - ask them to look at those arms and bushings which adjust camber in the rear. 

[1197sts]

I am fighting a similar problem with my 2001 Outback, it gets very loose in the back end when I go over bumps. I was inspecting the rear suspension and I found what I think may be worn rear arm bushings. I am posting a picture can anyone give me some input on what this, I am not a suspension expert at all. How hard is it to change this if that's what I need to do?

 

[1197sts]

Correction, I think this is the upper link. This is the right side, the left is worn also but not as bad.

[heartless]

whatever it is, it is definitely worn out.

hard to say with any certainty what part it is from that picture, however.