What's a good year for a Forester?

[bosango]

I'm thinking of expanding the fleet and getting something with a little more room than my '93 Lego and thought a Forester might be a good option. I love the EJ22E (although I think I'd love the turbo version even more) so I thought a Phase II vehicle with a Phase I engine might be one way to go. Or maybe get a newer one with a blown head and just fix it up stock with upgraded parts.

 

I guess what I'm asking is if you could choose, what would be the best engine/head/body combination? I'd appreciate any suggestions on what might make for a reliable workhorse vehicle. Horsepower would be a plus, but with my current Lego and after a long history of old VWs, I'm quite used to doing without!

[idosubaru]

get a brand new one?

 

a very general rule is avoid the 98 model. those have the DOHC EJ25's which are more problematic.

 

but that also means those are the easiest ones to find with a blown engine, so maybe that's a good fit if you want a swap.

 

other than that not much difference - they all come with the same motors/trans EJ25's - Phase I in 98 and Phase II after.

[john40iowa]

my vote is '00 onward.

[GeneralDisorder]

'98 if you want to do a 2.2 swap.

 

'99 and up are great rigs if taken care of. Do the HG's first thing. The automatic's have oil coolers and it prolongs engine life dramatically.

 

GD

[1 Lucky Texan]

maybe check here to track features and options thru the years;

 

http://www.cars101.com/forester.html

 

I'm sure it's too new for you but, 2011 models got the FB engine with a chain instead of TB.

[Todd GT5]

Just a thought for you. I've been driving a 92 Legacy for a few years(just switched to a 2000 OBW) and my coworker has a 98 Forester. There really isn't much size difference in the three to me. The Forester may be a little taller, but it's a little shorter too. I do have a little more room in my 2000OBW than in my 92 Legacy, but the width of the rear hatch seems to favor the 92.

 

You should look at the specs to comfirm. To me it's mainly a style choice and I prefer the looks of the Legacy based rigs. Also a lot of the 99 and earlier Foresters seem to have less conveniences such as cruise control and power windows.

 

-Todd

[Todd GT5]

If I were going for a Forester I would also go 2000 or newer.

 

-Todd

Edited April 5, 2012 by Todd GT5

[idosubaru]

The automatic's have oil coolers and it prolongs engine life dramatically.

 

GD

hmmm, really? what makes you say that? hard for me to see that since i've seen blown blocks with oil coolers....but of course previous overheats, etc who knows, it's so dynamic.

[The Dude]

'98 if you want to do a 2.2 swap.

 

'99 and up are great rigs if taken care of. Do the HG's first thing. The automatic's have oil coolers and it prolongs engine life dramatically.

 

GD

 

 

I hate to take issue with a well respected poster. However, IMO the HG failure rate on 1999 and up 2.5L SOHC does not justify preemtively replacing the HGs. GD, what do you think the HG failure is on 1999 and up 2.5L SOHC engines? Under 10%? Under 5%? My guess would be under 5%, maybe way under 5%, and almost all of those HG failures would be the much less critical external HG failures.

The vast majority of 2.5L SOHC owners will never experience a HG failure, particularly the much more serious internal HG failure that plagued the 2.5L DOHC. Why throw serious money at a problem that may never happen? The DOHC internal HG failure could cause the engine to overheat and leave you stranded. The much rarer SOHC internal HG failure, not so much.

[mattocs]

You really think the SOHC HG fail rate is under 5%? That just seems so low that its almost an acceptable failure rate.

[GeneralDisorder]

Depends on how you classify failure. It is my experience that 99 to 06 HG failure is around 100%. They pretty much all weep oil from the drivers side - some weep coolant as well. Some also weep from the passenger side. If you can live with it thats fine. But the failure is still there. Sometimes its not enough to worry about but that really depends on the owner. For a lot of folks the knowledge that its leaking is too much to live with. I replace a lot of these engines and work on a ton of these cars. My reccomendations are based on that experience and what maintenance items are required on a new vehicle. T-belt kit and HG's ARE what I recommend for a trouble free 105k. And people that follow my reccomendations are very happy with their cars.

 

GD

[1982gl4]

Foresters are great cars, my mom has a 200 with 260k on it, original engine third set of head gaskets all the leaks were external, but we didn't want it leaking vital fluids everywhere. It has been built proof. We just picked up an 05 to replace it with, and I'm hoping that will be as good for her. I have to say I like the 05 better as far as looks and comfort, that being said I have nothing bad to say about our 2000 it's very comfortable and drives well. I guess it comes down to budget, and preference.

[1982gl4]

Depends on how you classify failure. It is my experience that 99 to 06 HG failure is around 100%. They pretty much all weep oil from the drivers side - some weep coolant as well. Some also weep from the passenger side. If you can live with it thats fine. But the failure is still there. Sometimes its not enough to worry about but that really depends on the owner. For a lot of folks the knowledge that its leaking is too much to live with. I replace a lot of these engines and work on a ton of these cars. My reccomendations are based on that experience and what maintenance items are required on a new vehicle. T-belt kit and HG's ARE what I recommend for a trouble free 105k. And people that follow my reccomendations are very happy with their cars.

 

GD

 

We do this at the small shop I work at as well. At 105k new timing belt kit and head gaskets. A lot of customers want the head gaskets changed if they know it's leaking, and I don't blame them at all. I had an external leak on one of my cars, and I couldn't stand it, smelled like burring oil all the time. They all fail eventually.

[GeneralDisorder]

hmmm, really? what makes you say that? hard for me to see that since i've seen blown blocks with oil coolers....but of course previous overheats, etc who knows, it's so dynamic.

 

Usually that's from HG's weeping coolant leading to overheat conditions. The oil coolers keep the oil temp down which prolongs oil life - that in turn means that people who aren't religious about their oil changes can slide through a few more thousand before the oil turns to tar.

 

GD

[The Dude]

You really think the SOHC HG fail rate is under 5%? That just seems so low that its almost an acceptable failure rate.

 

Fine, what do you think the HG failure rate is for MY2000 and up 2.5L SOHC engines for the first 200,000 miles?

 

Even if the HG failure rate for the first 200,000 miles was 10%, or even 20%, I would still only replace them when they actually failed. Even at a very high 20% failure rate, 80% of owners will never experience a HG failure. Plus, the typical external HG failure associated with the SOHC is far less serious than the internal HG failure that plagued the DOHC.

 

You could pump $1500-$2000 into an unneeded HG replacement and have the tranny self destruct up the very next week. Or, someone could blow through a red light and total your car. SOHC HG failure does not happen with enough frequency to justify a blanket preemptive replacement policy.

It's a simple economic decision.

[GeneralDisorder]

SOHC HG failure does not happen with enough frequency to justify a blanket preemptive replacement policy.

It's a simple economic decision.

 

The frequency is basically 100%. Perhaps you don't want to admit that. Doesn't mean it isnt so. Every single one of these engines I see is weeping oil from *at least* the drivers side head by the first t-belt change. I will not install a 251/253 without HG change nor will i sell one without them being done. Blanket policy. Works great for me and my customers. I have an '04 Impreza sitting here with 101k and weeping HG on the drivers side. He would like it fixed. I will oblige him.

 

GD

[ShawnW]

I do an average of 3-4 head gasket jobs a month and when at the dealer I did 148 workdays in a row of head gasket jobs. Yes. 148 cars in a row. Along with the fuel recall bulletins mixed in.

 

I would say 5 percent DON'T fail before 200K.

 

And fail in my book is:

1. Customer smells something hot and its dripping on the exhaust.

2. Oil/Coolant mix

3. 1/2 quart oil loss between oil changes at 3750 interval.

 

Frankly, why argue it. They were so bad at one point the 2000-2004 Outback and Legacy cars were getting as high as 70/30 customer pay reimbursement from Subaru to have the fixed before 100,000 miles!

 

I look at it like this.

 

Its 4 hours book time to do the water pump and timing belt service.

Usually the valve cover gaskets leak before 100K-at a minimum the tube seals do and its the same job to replace them. Thats a 1 hour book time.

Already at 5 hours.

Or. Pull the engine, replace the head gaskets, valve cover gaskets and intake gaskets and timing belt and pay an average of around 8.5 book time. An extra 3.5 or maybe $350 labor and $100 parts. Usually the heads are still flat but I deck them the bare min anyway so thats a variable expense. Still-maybe $500 more to have an engine last till 210K. Not so bad. That also gets you a free valve adjustment when I do it. They do run better after its done too.

[MilesFox]

My in-laws have a 97 forester. It has the 2.5 DOHC ej25d. We got it for $1750, although it could sell for towards $3000 as it is. We lucked out with several circumstances.

 

One, we got the car from someone i knew personally. Two, he was moving and had to sell fast. three, the car had service papers showing new struts, HG, and timing belt before 150,000 miles. the car currently has a little less than 150k.

 

Compared to my 94 legacy, the forester is a little narrower and shorter, but has more head room. Personally, i think the egacy has more square feet of space than the forester, but the forester makes up with equal cubic feet with the extra headroom. the forester is based on the impreza chassis, which shares mechanical dimension with the legacy.

 

What i would do if in the market for swapping a fixer upper, is to find a complete forester with a bad 2.5 and drop the 2.2. If it is just a head gasket failure with no bottom end issues, i would swap the 2.2 heads onto the 2.5 block, and the 97 should have dual port exhaust witch match 2.2. You get a franken motor this way with high compression and 200 hp, but you need to run higher octane gas.

 

As a general rule for rock-solid reliability, and parts swappability, i would look mainly within 1990-1997 legacy, and 93-98 impreza.

 

Impreza is not a bad option, as they are generally cheaper than foresters, just as common as legacy, and can usually be had for cheap needing regular repairs.

 

the phase 2 engines use a metal head gasket, and the ej22e (90-96 legacy) uses a composite gasket. The composite head gaskets last the life of the engine(with regular care and maintenence, no overheats) and the metal gaskets usually fail with lack of coolant maintenance, with the water jacket rusting out and causing an external leak, which leads to low coolant, which leads to overheat and compression failure with the average consumer car owner who relies on low mileage instead of regular maintenance for reliability.