UMT Posted April 8, 2012 Share Posted April 8, 2012 (edited) Ok, the saga continues. 99 Impreza Outback Sport Replaced both rotors and installed new ceramic pads. Left side, works great. Right side? Trouble from the start. I think my major problem is the brake caliper isn't releasing like it should. Is it my understanding that you remove the caliper, pump brakes until the piston is out as far as it will go, clean and relube obviously making sure all the pins, etc. are also cleaned and lubed? Will that piston come all the way out? Appreciate any advice or help. Thanks, UMT Edited April 8, 2012 by UMT model Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jarl Posted April 8, 2012 Share Posted April 8, 2012 As far as I know there's nothing that would prevent the piston from being ejected if you pump the brakes without pads. Did you check the condition of all the surfaces the pads slide on? The pads should move freely by hand... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UMT Posted April 8, 2012 Author Share Posted April 8, 2012 As far as I know there's nothing that would prevent the piston from being ejected if you pump the brakes without pads. Did you check the condition of all the surfaces the pads slide on? The pads should move freely by hand... Yeah, I've cleaned and lubed everything. It's just that I had the piston out a bit the other day and cleaned and lubed where I could and even with the brake fluid zirc all the way out, it seemed to go back in hard using a 4" C clamp (which I've used for years)... Brakes work fine but I'm generating a little heat on that side and I don't want that. I had replaced the rotors/pads and the left side works fine but nothing but grief on the right side. I suspect I got a bad rotor out of the box. Checked it with a micrometer and there seems to be some high/low spots. Cleaned up the old rotor and put it on and it works 100% better but I still want to make sure that piston is releasing like it should and would feel better getting it all of the way out and REALLY cleaning and lubing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rooster2 Posted April 8, 2012 Share Posted April 8, 2012 From what you have said, I would replace the caliper. I have had good luck with rebuilds from Autozone and Advance Auto Parts. Both stores have great guarantees with their calipers. Yea, I am sure you could rebuild on your own, but if you are like me, you are not exactly sure what needs to be done on a rebuild. I leave the rebuilds to rebuild companies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivans imports Posted April 8, 2012 Share Posted April 8, 2012 i rebiuld a few is diffacult to reinstall the piston i bet its rusty if you remove it a wire wheel or 600 gt sandpaper cleanup piston and reinstall. I just bought rebiuld kitts for my 80 brat and i think the subaru dealers can get you a rebiuld kitt was easy to do and the newer ones dont have park brake atached. The only hard part is seating the lip seal for piston i found that is i lube it well with brake lube and gentaly twist the piston in thiss works best do not force piston should slide in with little resistance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UMT Posted April 8, 2012 Author Share Posted April 8, 2012 From what you have said, I would replace the caliper. I have had good luck with rebuilds from Autozone and Advance Auto Parts. Both stores have great guarantees with their calipers. Yea, I am sure you could rebuild on your own, but if you are like me, you are not exactly sure what needs to be done on a rebuild. I leave the rebuilds to rebuild companies. Well, I bought the rotors and disc's from Advance Auto and now we are going to see what they'll do with their guarantee.... I have a feeling that because I'm not a pro-technician, they are going to say 'installed incorrectly.' We'll see. I like to do everything I can myself and learn more about my car at the same time. What's the worse that can happen? I screw it up and have to buy a rebuilt? Or I learn how to do it myself? I'll let you know guys know what happens when I get a chance to tear into it again.... Thanks, UMT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rooster2 Posted April 8, 2012 Share Posted April 8, 2012 Well, I bought the rotors and disc's from Advance Auto and now we are going to see what they'll do with their guarantee.... I have a feeling that because I'm not a pro-technician, they are going to say 'installed incorrectly.' We'll see. I like to do everything I can myself and learn more about my car at the same time. What's the worse that can happen? I screw it up and have to buy a rebuilt? Or I learn how to do it myself? I'll let you know guys know what happens when I get a chance to tear into it again.... Thanks, UMT The counter guys at my Advance Auto Parts have been very good to me, when I return parts for a credit or for replacement under guarantee. Just return items with your sales slip. Installing a caliper is pretty easy, just remember to bleed the brake line after installation. A "one man" bleeder kit works great to do this by yourself. Ask here for advise on caliper installation, if you have any questions. Be happy to advise you. I have found that buying on line from Advance and using their 20% discount code is great, then wait a half hour or so, and pick up the part at your local store. There is always an active discount code available from Advance. You can even google search under title of "Advance Auto Parts discount coupon" to find a list of available coupon codes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jarl Posted April 9, 2012 Share Posted April 9, 2012 Well, I bought the rotors and disc's from Advance Auto and now we are going to see what they'll do with their guarantee.... There are two different things here: you say you bought rotors and discs from Advance Autoparts, but you also said the problem seems to be with the piston not retracting correctly on the caliper. Until you replace/overhaul the calipers, you can't blame it on AA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UMT Posted April 9, 2012 Author Share Posted April 9, 2012 (edited) There are two different things here: you say you bought rotors and discs from Advance Autoparts, but you also said the problem seems to be with the piston not retracting correctly on the caliper. Until you replace/overhaul the calipers, you can't blame it on AA You may have a point, but it seems awful strange to me that I didn't have a problem before I replaced the rotor. I was close to needing new brakes but did the job as more of a 'preventive maintenance' measure. I'll see what happens before I totally place any blame, but I know I did a good job of replacing the rotors and disks. The left side works great! Edited April 9, 2012 by UMT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jarl Posted April 9, 2012 Share Posted April 9, 2012 One thing that *may* have happened is that when you retracted the piston it didn't go straight into the cylinder, but at an angle. In that case it would create nicks into the walls of the cylinder, and prevent movement. Or you may have dislodged crud into the brake lines. There are lots of possibilities... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rooster2 Posted April 9, 2012 Share Posted April 9, 2012 I still think your caliper is the source of your problem. Replace or rebuild it. If I were you, I would replace it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unibrook Posted April 9, 2012 Share Posted April 9, 2012 (edited) Dude, I battled this warped rotor, excessive/uneven pad wear, brake drag issue for 2 years on my front left wheel of my 2001 Forester with 113k miles. Let me save you tons of time and effort, and probably $. As Rooster2 says, just go to AutoZone (or your carpart shop of choice) and buy a remanufactured caliper....it will cost about $65, once you net out the core charge, and it comes with pad bracket and new pins/boots etc...it looked brand new to me. The only things I had to re-use were the banjo bolt and the bracket bolts. Piece de la cake. Plata de shrimp. Wish I had done this from the start instead of trying to polish and lube my old pins and coax the old sticking cylinder into working better. Edited April 9, 2012 by unibrook Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jarl Posted April 9, 2012 Share Posted April 9, 2012 Plata de shrimp When everything is said and done, someone will have to explain this expression to me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UMT Posted April 9, 2012 Author Share Posted April 9, 2012 One thing that *may* have happened is that when you retracted the piston it didn't go straight into the cylinder, but at an angle. In that case it would create nicks into the walls of the cylinder, and prevent movement. Or you may have dislodged crud into the brake lines. There are lots of possibilities... I could think of a half dozen things that MAY have happened running a bad rotor. I KNOW the rotor is bad. The break shoes are worn out after 2000 miles or less. They are 'guarantied' for 2 years. I shouldn't have to say that I'm being honest when I say that I never had a problem until I put a faulty rotor on. I'm not looking to get anything but a new rotor and some shoes for the right side. I've got no problem with Advance Auto either. They didn't make the parts. I'll probably end up going to the manufacturer, and the CEO if I have to. (I'm good at this shat!) To be perfectly clear, I'm saying that a bad rotor ultimately caused a problem with the caliper piston. I may be wrong. I may be totally correct. But I will find out in the end and keep those who may be interested posted. Thanks, UMT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unibrook Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 When everything is said and done, someone will have to explain this expression to me If you haven't seen the movie Repo Man from 1984, you need to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivans imports Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 Here in the land of rusty subarus a seized caliper is a dayly acurancae any mosture in the piston and its done Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heartless Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 I could think of a half dozen things that MAY have happened running a bad rotor. I KNOW the rotor is bad. The break shoes are worn out after 2000 miles or less. They are 'guarantied' for 2 years. I shouldn't have to say that I'm being honest when I say that I never had a problem until I put a faulty rotor on. I'm not looking to get anything but a new rotor and some shoes for the right side. I've got no problem with Advance Auto either. They didn't make the parts. I'll probably end up going to the manufacturer, and the CEO if I have to. (I'm good at this shat!) To be perfectly clear, I'm saying that a bad rotor ultimately caused a problem with the caliper piston. I may be wrong. I may be totally correct. But I will find out in the end and keep those who may be interested posted. Thanks, UMT hate to be argumentative, but... sorry, the rotor has NOTHING to do with the piston not operating correctly. The piston not operating correctly CAN have a lot to do with pads wearing incorrectly as can a bad rotor. You are placing "blame" on only one component of a "system" - in which ALL parts need to be working correctly. in all honesty, tiny variations in rotor thickness are not going to create that much of a heat issue. A warped rotor would however. the piston not operating correctly - ie, not retracting properly, on the other hand, can cause all kinds of issues, including wearing pads out very quickly. It's just that I had the piston out a bit the other day and cleaned and lubed where I could and even with the brake fluid zirc all the way out, it seemed to go back in hard using a 4" C clamp This statement alone tells me that the piston is your problem - not the rotor. Just because you replaced the rotor at the same time, does not mean that it is the problem. If you insist on getting the rotor & pads replaced, by all means, do so, but I dont think it will not "cure" your problem. Tell me this - when you use your C-clamp to push the piston back in, do you use anything to evenly distrubute the pressure across the entire face of the piston - such as a piece of wood or metal, or do you use nothing but the clamp directly on the piston? I use a C-clamp as well, but always with something to evenly distribute the pressure thereby making sure the piston goes back in straight. we keep a small piece of 1/8 in steel around just for this. by using the clamp directly on the piston, it is very likely that the piston was not pushed back in straight...it doesnt take much of an angle to cause problems as tolerances are fairly tight. One thing that *may* have happened is that when you retracted the piston it didn't go straight into the cylinder, but at an angle. In that case it would create nicks into the walls of the cylinder, and [possibly] prevent movement. ^ this is where the problem lies - fix it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jarl Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 (edited) I wrote a long explanation yesterday, but I lost it when Windows decided it had to restart. Heartless' post is a very similar argument, so I'd like to add just one thing to his (?) response: If one of the calipers is sticking it's *extremely* easy to overheat the corresponding rotor. Depending on the metallurgy of the discs used (and many other variables) it may end up distorted in just a few miles If you haven't seen the movie Repo Man from 1984, you need to. LOL... I think I just saw the scene you are referring to (I have not seen the picture yet). Not that it makes any difference in the context, but in Spanish "plata de ___ " means "money destined for ____". "Money for buying shrimp" is a very contorted way of saying something is easy Edited April 10, 2012 by jarl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heartless Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 I wrote a long explanation yesterday, but I lost it when Windows decided it had to restart. Heartless' post is a very similar argument, so I'd like to add just one thing to his (?) response: If one of the calipers is sticking it's *extremely* easy to overheat the corresponding rotor. Depending on the metallurgy of the discs used (and many other variables) it may end up distorted in just a few miles Her Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jarl Posted April 11, 2012 Share Posted April 11, 2012 Her I knew it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heartless Posted April 11, 2012 Share Posted April 11, 2012 I knew it! sure you did - LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1997reduxe Posted June 15, 2012 Share Posted June 15, 2012 Can I resurrect this thread to ask something? I'm considering replacing the front calipers on my 95 Legacy wagon 2.2. There is definite brake vibration in front right, and as car has 180k on it I figured to possibly replace disks/calipers/pads and give it a new brake lifetime. That is if the local repair/machine shop says they can't turn the rotors. If they can I might go for caliper rebuild for now if they think feasible. But some of the loaded caliper sets say they come "with bracket", some don't mention it. Should I try to get ones that have the bracket, or if they don't, get a bracket myself, or doesn't this really matter? Are there any other parts you might replace when replacing rotors pads and calipers? (Other than brake fluid...) Thanks again. Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UMT Posted June 15, 2012 Author Share Posted June 15, 2012 I ended up buying Raybestos reman calipers from Daves Discount Auto Parts online. Fabulous service, fast delilvery. Core charge was only 8.50 so didn't even bother returning core as postage would have been more. Bought shoes there also. I can't believe you can turn rotors for less that buying new ones. (20.00?) I rebuilt my caliper and still had issues. I suggest just buying reman calipers, new rotors and shoes. Saves alot of grief and maybe even some money in the future. I learned the hard way. UMT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1997reduxe Posted June 15, 2012 Share Posted June 15, 2012 Yeah, if they're that cheap then I will definitely just buy new rotors and thanks for the advice. But I had always been of the impression that you needed to buy "better" or Sube-type OEM on brakes cause Subarus are picky when they come to brakes? And what brand/type (ceramic, metal etc) of pads and rotors did you get? Thanks all. Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ocei77 Posted June 15, 2012 Share Posted June 15, 2012 Should I try to get ones that have the bracket, ........Are there any other parts you might replace when replacingrotors pads and calipers? (Other than brake fluid...) Thanks again. Dan You don't need brackets, use the ones you have. A one man bleeder would be good.(the simple one, just a hose and valve on end) Make sure you remove the pins, clean and relube. Antiseize on the bolts. Should be good to go. O. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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