man on the moon Posted April 27, 2012 Share Posted April 27, 2012 I seriously overheated the car earlier this week (Loyale) on the way home from work. My eyeball/roadside inspection came up with seepage from the radiator, and seepage on top of the motor. I'm pretty sure something big let go, just not sure what it is. Lost most of my coolant between the time I heard the hissing sound and the time I got to the end of the exit ramp (no more than 90 seconds or so). Motor shut down voluntarily. Had it towed to RetroRoo (ShawnWs shop) here in Denver. He confirmed my suspicions, and also found water that appears to be coming from one of the exhaust studs, which is really *really* bad. I can only hope it's leaking from elsewhere and collecting in the manifold, rather than originating from the exhaust. After some consideration I have a few ideas about where to go from here. My options are somewhat limited by money and space (third floor walk up studio with street parking): 1--Buy a gasket kit and just reseal it. Machine the heads and hope for the best until I can get money, parts, and space for a 2.2 swap. 2--Get a shortblock and assemble a new motor. I have a full set of heads, cams, and valve covers, and an intake manifold in the back of the car from another Loyale I had a while back. I only need the shortblock. I also have a LOT of gaskets, I would only need to pick up the valve cover gaskets and the intake/exhaust manifold gaskets. I have one head gasket, and think the other is in there somewhere, should be in a box under my seat--not sure how they got separated. I have all the other gaskets from two partial 'full gasket sets' I've picked up along the way. I would also include timing belts, hoses, and vacuum lines. Have the 'new' motor swapped in once it's resealed. 3--Grab a running motor from a running car (wrecked or bad tranny or whatever) and hope for the best. Did this last time, and it worked out ok-ish until my radiator gave out. 4--Park it and pick up a new car for a while, though any car I can afford at the moment will be demanding just as much time and money in the next six weeks as the Loyale is now. (I'm saying disposable income is limited). 5--The radiator will be replaced or repaired, my gut says a seam for one of the tanks burst, or is starting to. Something over there is leaking under only 5-8 pounds/pressure with the machine, and it doesn't seem to be any of the stopcock/thermostat/drainplug thingies. Can't confirm it is the tank, but there are only so many things it can be, and any one of them is going to cost just as much to repair as to replace. May as well put in a known good rad than repair this one and find out in 1000 miles it is full of crud and building up excessive pressure. Eventually I want a 2.2, but that is a few parts and several weekends in the future, maybe after I get a job I don't have to drive for every day (currently 25 miles if I drive, four busses/two hours per way if I do public transit). Anyway, I'm leaning toward #2, and am headed up to the shop tomorrow (Saturday) to pick Shawn's brain and see what can be cobbled together between what is in the back of my car and the back of his shop--but in the meanwhile, does anyone have other suggestions or ideas? It doesn't have to run forever (though I wouldn't complain), just enough to get me to work and back until I have enough saved to fix and not band-aid the problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilesFox Posted April 28, 2012 Share Posted April 28, 2012 do the head gaskets. I would only replace the block if it was severely heated several times by continuing to drive it ignorantly every day with no coolant until it doesn't work anymore. If it was just an acute occurrence, do the hg and be done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
man on the moon Posted April 28, 2012 Author Share Posted April 28, 2012 Ya, just happened this once. Got it warm once or twice, but not overheat warm. I took it in because I have no desire to drive it everyday. I was hoping it would just be the radiator, and I could still drive it a few weeks without doing anything else, but when he said there is water in the exhaust...ugh. Gotta do something now. My initial thought was that simply putting a motor together and swapping it in might be easier since I have 90% of the parts necessary, but taking apart/cleaning/machining/replacing won't take much longer. Would it be cheaper...that is a question I'll ask the mechanic . Since it is at the shop he will have a lot of say, I'm just trying to make sure I haven't left out any options to ask about. Be headed up that way in a few hours, we'll see what happens! It's not an extraordinarily big deal, minus riding the edge of being broke, so I have to find the cheapest way to still get a running car out of this mess Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivans imports Posted April 28, 2012 Share Posted April 28, 2012 when the ea 82 gets hot the valve guides drop out and the lifter buckets come up and the pistons stick to cly walls it may be repairable but you better know what your looking for I throw ea 82s away unless perfect shape just not worth fixing put your money into a 2.2 covertion way better moter and you will be way hapyer with results Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
man on the moon Posted April 28, 2012 Author Share Posted April 28, 2012 I do want a 2.2 but no space or money for that big of a project right now. Good call on the motor possibly seizing, however, I was able to start it and it ran for a minute. This was after it cut off, cooled, and I was able to safely refill the coolant. I just need to replace the head gaskets, and maybe the valves and valve seals. And other gaskets I will ruin trying to get down the the head gaskets (intake manifold, exhaust, etc). I think I'll stick new timing belts and hoses in, too, if I can get my hands on some. I have a pretty good idea what needs to be done, just debating the most efficient way to get it done. I think Shawn will know best since he is the one with the shop, but any time I go into a problem with multiple solutions I like to collect information from as many sources as possible. So far all bases seem to be covered, though. Should be good! Thanks guys Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
man on the moon Posted April 28, 2012 Author Share Posted April 28, 2012 Perhaps I should rephrase my thought. I'm debating whether it would be more efficient to grab a shortblock--especially if Shawn has one (I haven't asked yet) and seal it all up nicely, using the heads and cams I *already have* (I keep a set of spares), and drop it in place of the motor I have; or if it is faster and cheaper to pull apart and put together the motor already in the car. Time, space, and money are limited :|. Not expecting a hard and fast answer, just looking for ideas I may have overlooked, but so far both answers aren't news to me, which is a good sign that I haven't missed anything major Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted April 28, 2012 Share Posted April 28, 2012 Cheaper and faster to buy a used, running engine and drop it in. Almost always. I do engine swaps like crazy around here - I've done three 2.5 to 2.2 swaps this month. As well as a 4AFE in a '91 Corolla. That's an engine a week.... all of them came from reputable recyclers - the most mileage on any of them was 137k on one of the 2.2's that went into a '99 OBW - the other two had 84k and 97k and the 4AFE had 111k. ALL of them run completely perfect. Carefully consider who you are buying from, get compression numbers, and pull the valve covers to look for varnish and carbon. I get a surprising number of engines that have had very regular maintenance - probably with synthetic oil as some of them look like the day they rolled off the lot inside. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
man on the moon Posted April 28, 2012 Author Share Posted April 28, 2012 Cheaper and faster to buy a used, running engine and drop it in. Almost always. I do engine swaps like crazy around here - I've done three 2.5 to 2.2 swaps this month. As well as a 4AFE in a '91 Corolla. That's an engine a week.... all of them came from reputable recyclers - the most mileage on any of them was 137k on one of the 2.2's that went into a '99 OBW - the other two had 84k and 97k and the 4AFE had 111k. ALL of them run completely perfect. Carefully consider who you are buying from, get compression numbers, and pull the valve covers to look for varnish and carbon. I get a surprising number of engines that have had very regular maintenance - probably with synthetic oil as some of them look like the day they rolled off the lot inside. GD That was my initial thought, but unless he has one just laying around I'm not in the mood to wait a month for one to come up. If he does, I'll be very happy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted April 28, 2012 Share Posted April 28, 2012 www.car-part.com is your friend. Look for a short block - and don't just look local. Shipping on a short block isn't bad - like $75 typically. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6 Star Posted April 28, 2012 Share Posted April 28, 2012 Cheaper and faster to buy a used, running engine and drop it in. Almost always. I do engine swaps like crazy around here - I've done three 2.5 to 2.2 swaps this month. As well as a 4AFE in a '91 Corolla. That's an engine a week.... all of them came from reputable recyclers - the most mileage on any of them was 137k on one of the 2.2's that went into a '99 OBW - the other two had 84k and 97k and the 4AFE had 111k. ALL of them run completely perfect. Carefully consider who you are buying from, get compression numbers, and pull the valve covers to look for varnish and carbon. I get a surprising number of engines that have had very regular maintenance - probably with synthetic oil as some of them look like the day they rolled off the lot inside. GD What are some of the used engine places that you have gotten good results from? I tried a place in Lynwood here in WA and all their engines looked like they had been through a deep-frier inside. Would like to just get a good fuel injected ea82 engine and maybe do a reseal on it for my wagon. Not trying to hijack, I'm sure the OP would like to know as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted April 28, 2012 Share Posted April 28, 2012 The ones I deal with around here aren't going to have any EA82 stuff I'm afraid. It's getting hard to find '95 EJ22's from my sources - they don't buy them from the auctions cause they sit on them for too long and the value of the parts is low because of their age. www.car-part.com is the best source. That's how I've found all the places I deal with for newer stuff. I did buy an EA82 short block not long ago with 115k on it. Got it for $75 from a little podunk yard a ways out of town. But they aren't a consistent source - just happened to have one. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
man on the moon Posted April 28, 2012 Author Share Posted April 28, 2012 (edited) What are some of the used engine places that you have gotten good results from? I tried a place in Lynwood here in WA and all their engines looked like they had been through a deep-frier inside. Would like to just get a good fuel injected ea82 engine and maybe do a reseal on it for my wagon.Not trying to hijack, I'm sure the OP would like to know as well. The last time I pulled an engine to swap, I combed craigslist until I found someone selling a Loyale that had transmission problems. Drove out, the motor was fine, dropped it in mine. A rear ended/other accident/part out event (branch fell on it, etc) would also be a good donor. That's the motor I have now, and had I a driveway or parking spot I would do the work myself. I think the block is ok, heads are toast. One is, at least. May as well do both since the other likely isn't far behind. GD: I'll ask Shawn if he has a full motor close to ready to go, but I would be impressed if he has one just laying around with no home. Won't complain if he does, though . He hasn't answered at the shop yet, so I'll try again later. Also--thanks for the heads up on cheap shipping for a shortblock, I had no idea cargo was that inexpensive (assuming one isn't found locally, CCR may have a shortblock, for example). A friend's church is looking for a cheap car for driver education classes, and I'm beginning to think if I can get someone to donate a shell I can build the rest, as long as the pastor gives me a spot behind the church to park it in while we wait for parts! Tax season just having ended it seems no one is in a hurry to donate a working vehicle, but that paperweight in the yard that the neighbor complains about...lots of those Edited April 28, 2012 by man on the moon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilesFox Posted April 28, 2012 Share Posted April 28, 2012 I have cooked enough ea82's and put them back together with success that i wouldnt worry about it unless it was a turbo and cooked to the point it quit running and melted the timing belt covers. If you can get the head bolts out easily without any fuss or aluminum on the thread you should be good to go. Especially if the belt covers did not melt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
man on the moon Posted April 29, 2012 Author Share Posted April 29, 2012 Talked to Shawn. He doesn't have a shortblock or whole motor, and labor would run close to $800 . He did offer to help me move it to somewhere I can work on it myself, since it isn't worth it to fix the EA82 which will probably just fail again at some point, soonish. I have most or all of the gaskets (I'd have to check), and a pair of heads I can get machined. I may have to grab the lifters, or ask a machine shop to free some up from one of the heads I pull off. That said, this should be one of the cheapest head gasket jobs yet...that said...I HAVE TO DO HEADGASKETS AGAIN. Only eight months! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShawnW Posted April 29, 2012 Share Posted April 29, 2012 Could do an EA81 swap like McBrat just did on a wagon, only keep the SPFI. About the same cost but should be pretty solid. I have one here (ea81) that should be fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
man on the moon Posted April 30, 2012 Author Share Posted April 30, 2012 Could do an EA81 swap like McBrat just did on a wagon, only keep the SPFI. About the same cost but should be pretty solid. I have one here (ea81) that should be fine. Now this idea I like! I remember you mentioned doing it, but missed that you had one in the shop (or that came to mind later). I may consider this later in the summer--rent is due next week . I think I have somewhere to work on the car, just waiting on the homeowner (who is not the friend who suggested the location) response. If that falls through/I don't find anywhere to work on the car in the next few days I'll take this option and put money aside, just leave it parked a few weeks. I have everything minus needing the heads machined to perform the job. Well, and I'd have to grab intake and exhaust manifold gaskets, but those are virtually no cost. Do you have the ability to machine heads at your shop? I should have asked on the phone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivans imports Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 around here a used 2.5/2.2 goes for $1700+ at our local recyler I wish they had the same prices as you guys Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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