94 Legacy starting issue

[808Legacy]

My 94 Legacy starts only after I nudge the key back just a tiny bit after the first try. Sometimes this takes 3 or 4 tries, sometimes just once. It always clicks the first time.

 

I checked the pull-out connector for corrosion (didn't see much) and cleaned it as well as I could with a wire brush. I tried to get the wires into the female end on the starter from below, but it was really hard to get to. I also cleaned off a little rust on the underside connection after removing the rubber cover.

 

I tried to run a wire from the positive battery terminal to the starter with the plug-in connector out as suggested by the Haynes manual, but nothing. It was a lower gauge wire with clamps, not a jumper cable per se. Battery is very new and not at issue.

 

I'm wondering if I need to replace the solenoid or starter or both or if this is an key ignition switch issue. I realize it would help to take it out to clean it more. I checked for wiring cracks (but most of it is encased in that flexible plastic tubing).

 

I've read a few other starter posts, but none seem to address this type of "need to pull back a tiny bit to make it start in just the right way". I'm a little concerned that eventually it won't start at all, as this happened to me recently with a Chevy S10 I was borrowing (the key had to be turned just the right way to start).

 

This has become a bit of a minor project car I got in February, yet have driven very minimally. Check engine light comes on periodically, yet not every time.

 

Thanks in advance for any insights!

[Fairtax4me]

Sounds more like a bad ignition switch. The contacts in the starter solenoid are known to go bad on these, but that has nothing to do with holding the key in the right spot.

[808Legacy]

Sounds more like a bad ignition switch. The contacts in the starter solenoid are known to go bad on these, but that has nothing to do with holding the key in the right spot.

 

By ignition switch, do you mean the switch at the steering wheel? Ignition seems to have multiple meanings.

 

So, after that cleaning of the contact end it did make it easier than previously to start, but the key still needs to come back just a smidge. Only difference is that now it starts up on first try dependably rather than taking 3-4 tries. I guess I need to take the starter motor out and really clean the female contact.

[808Legacy]

Trying to determine if this symptom is a bad ignition switch? Anyone have any ideas? Per my previous post, I did clean the solenoid connections a little, but probably not as well as I could if I took it out. Not sure if it made a difference.

 

I can still seem to start it after 1st or 2nd try, but my ex tried to drive it and had a heck of a time getting it to start at all. I tried to coach her on it, like angling or twisting the key just a little when she turns the key.

 

If I did have to replace just the switch, I've read and seen on youtube that this is relatively easy, but the lock cylinder is a little more complex.

 

Thanks in advance!

[Rooster2]

I would bet the starter is bad. Clicking your key on and off, gets the contacts to engage eventually to start the car. Sometimes, lightly tapping the starter with a hammer will get the starter to work too.

 

I have never been one for rebuilding starters with new contacts, and what not on my own. To me, this is best done by a rebuild shop, who do that day in, and day out. I have always found it easier to buy a rebuilt starter from a parts store. Swapping out a Subie starter is not a difficult job.

[808Legacy]

I wasn't planning on rebuilding anything. Forgive my confusion, you mean the starter motor under the hood, right? So, you think it is the motor rather than the solenoid and not a key lock cylinder issue at all? I'll start by tapping starter (solenoid and motor).

 

I just answered my own question looking online- they're only sold as the same unit, starter and solenoid, it looks like.

Edited May 18, 2012 by 808Legacy

[808Legacy]

Ok, I need to tap the starter/solenoid to see if that helps, but I also probably need to replace the key cylinder inside, as I'm hearing that from a couple places. Turns out, the driver's side door lock cylinder doesn't work at all, so I need to replace that too.

 

Does anyone know if I can I replace both or all on the car with the same new key (ie, do these come in kits for the whole car) or do I need to see a locksmith?

[MilesFox]

my 94 legacy does this. i think it is the starter. if you tried jumpering it with a wire to the battery and it still clicks, suspect the solenoid.

 

mine is usually worst after starting the car several ties in short driving trips, not so much the first start.

 

avoid whacking the starter to not break the permanent magnets in the casing.

[WoodsWagon]

If you hear a solid click under the hood each time you turn the key but it doesn't crank the engine, the solenoid contacts are worn out. They are not hard to replace and for $15 and a little patience you can do them. You can also slap a rebuilt starter in, it's the same amount of work.

 

The random no-start condition of worn out solenoid contacts creates a lot of superstitious red herrings on the part of the driver. I would assume the ignition is fine until you had the starter ruled out. You can replace just the ignition switch without changing the lock cylinder, but try the starter first. It's the main wear part in that system.

[808Legacy]

Thanks. Red herring is right! Now I'm also wondering, from reading around, if it's a worn out key (it is an 18 year old car, after all). It does click each time, sometimes it even starts the first time. It was a really fun trying to coach my ex to turn the key just the right way too (not).

 

So, I'll go in this order: a) tapping starter/solenoid, taking starter out and cleaning contacts thoroughly, c) take out key cylinder and inspect to see if key is lining up, d) replace key cylinder, e) replace starter/solenoid

 

 

 

From what I'm understanding, I might be able to tinker with the door lock cylinder to get it to work again, so I'll try that.

[WoodsWagon]

The contacts get burned up. There's a copper disk that slams into two copper tabs when the solenoid engages and they carry the current from the battery to the motor. There's a lot of arcing because it's a high current load and it burns the copper away over time. The disk gets thin and the tabs get big steps worn into them. Each time you turn the key and engage the solenoid, the plunger with the contact disk on it turns a little bit as it gets slammed down. Eventually it lines a slightly thicker spot up with the contact tabs and it works just enough for the starter to turn. That's why you get click, click, click, then it starts.

 

Smacking it with a hammer only works if the brushes in the motor are worn out or stuck, which is not the problem. The hammer proves nothing.

 

If you get a click from the engine bay of the solenoid working, then the key and ignition switch are working fine too. The issue is in the high current circuit, which is the battery cable to the starter and the starter itself. It's a bolt and two nuts to swap out the starter. Put a reman one in and stop worrying that you'll be stranded somewhere.

[808Legacy]

By solenoid contacts do you mean the smaller wire coming from the firewall to the solenoid or replacing the solenoid? It seems like it's hard to find the solenoid without the starter motor, and the reman looks like around $200 + core, unless I can find a junk yard one.