imcdowel Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 ok so im working on my sisters subaru impreza 2.2 interferance motor and have never done anything with timing before. i replaced the water pump. and made it so that the far right and far left pulleys marks faced up, there is nothing to reference the passenger pulley to. only some faded crayon on the pulley and block. same with the driver pulley wich kept wanting to make a full rotation on me and made it difficult to align. then i think i forgot to align the center pulley all together..... the was no marks anywhere on it. i put the car back together and it wouldnt start. then it started but sounded HORRIBLE then died after a about a second or two... i knew i messed up the timing bad. im pulling it apart tommarow and going to try again this time aligning all the pulleys. did i hurt anything? do all three pulley need to just face straight up? there are no forums anywhere except nasioc or w/e and they wont let me post anything..... help you guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dude Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 (edited) I am sorry to say that the engine has almost undoubtedly bent a number of valves. At the very least, the head(s) will have to be removed and the bent valves will have to be replaced. There is a surfiet of information on replacing the timing belt available on this website, other Subaru related websites, and even videos on Youtube. You are going to want to assess the condition of the engine, and the car as a whole, before proceding with any repairs. A dealership typically charges around $3,500 for this kind of repair. Edited May 2, 2012 by The Dude Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imcdowel Posted May 2, 2012 Author Share Posted May 2, 2012 oh no. is there any hope? im going to pull the belt off and try to align it again any help? link me pictures of how it should look or videos and stuff?does that mean her car is dead for good? the reason for going into the motor was to replace the water pump since she overheated the car into the H SEVERAL times... im pretty sure it blew a head gasket but now i might have broken her car??? it only made the knocking noise for a one or two seconds then died.only started it two times. no chance of it being ok??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cal_look_zero Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 (edited) Valves are probably bent all to heck. If she overheated it though, you'll be wanting to replace the head gaskets for sure, so I guess it's a "While you're already in there" fix at this point. EDIT: I guess I should ask what your level of mechanical skill is? Changing valves isn't the hardest thing in the world to do, nor is head gaskets. However, as you've now experienced, they are things that can kill the car if done improperly. Edited May 2, 2012 by cal_look_zero Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dude Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 (edited) It would almost be a miracle if there wasn't any valve damage, count on there being bent valves,. If you have any doubt, you can always do a compression test. You might be best off putting in a used 2.2L engine. Apparently they can be had pretty cheaply. How many miles on your sister's car, and what kind of condition is it in? Just sit tight, there are plenty of very experienced posters on this board. Someone will point out the best way to handle this problem. ALSO, TRY A LOCATION A LITTLE MORE SPECIFIC THAN "USA". Edited May 2, 2012 by The Dude Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imcdowel Posted May 2, 2012 Author Share Posted May 2, 2012 Reno nv. It has 250k on it and it ran great. Valve damage? is it driveable? At least till she gets money to but an for me to drop in? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dude Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 With valve damage, the car is not driveable. At this point, the engine wouldn't start even if you got the timing belt on with everything lined up properly. The valves have to be replaced, or the engine has to be replaced. It's only a question of which one is best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dude Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 reno nv. It has 250k on it and it ran great. Valve damage? Is it driveable? At least till she gets money to but an for me to drop in? One other thing, if you need to tow this car you must use a flat bed tow truck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccrinc Posted May 3, 2012 Share Posted May 3, 2012 (edited) Actually, even though the engine is highly interferential, if it only ran for a second, you have a decent chance of little or no damage to the valves. BUT, that's only part of what you are dealing with. Had it not overheated, at this point, I would highly recommend you put a new timing belt on there with the proper timing marks. You have stressed the belt and if it's so old that the marks are gone, it's suspect anyway. I mean, you're in there, why would you NOT do the belt too? (and cam seals while you're at it). Watch the videos, read the info on this website, you could put a new belt on there (timed properly) and see what happens. If the engine only idles, the worst that should happen if the valves are bent is that will stay bent. It's the high revving (like highway speeds) that causes the severe damage. HOWEVER, if she overheated it severely, bent valves are only part of the damage. Sorry, but putting a water pump, belt and other parts on it are a waste of time. She FUBARED it by not pulling over immediately and not driving it again until it was properly repaired or replaced. Also, with 270,000 miles on it, a head job is only going to take out the bottom end. Sorry: she needs a new engine. Not your fault: hers for driving it like that. Emily Edited May 3, 2012 by ccrinc additions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted May 3, 2012 Share Posted May 3, 2012 just install the belt properly and see where you're at. these belts are easy to install. you don't have to reassemble all the timing covers and accessory pulleys, etc - install the belt (PROPERLY!) and start it. there's no way to tell if you damaged the valves, no one knows where the crank mark was...there is some chance that it was in a position where no valve damage would occur. there are two marks on the crank sprocket - make sure you use the right one. i don't personally understand where folks get confused but they do - use the dash. line both cam and crank marks up to their 12 noon position - the drivers side cam and crank both have marks on the engine to align with, really simple. passengers side is the cam case mating surface at 12 noon. install the belt and go from there. sometimes the valves are bent lightly enough that the car is drivable, sometimes it's not at all. again - just install the belt properly and see what happens. sounds like free labor no big deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted May 3, 2012 Share Posted May 3, 2012 Read these links for timing belt info: http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/showpost.php?p=952890&postcount=7 http://www.lovehorsepower.com/SubaruDocs/TimingWaterPump.htm Try timing it right before accusing the valves of being bent. You got it close enough to run the first time, so it couldn't have been too far off. You may have bigger problems though if the engine was overheated. Head gaskets are the least thing to worry about at this point. The DOHC 2.5 likes to chew up rod bearings when it overheats. Even if you get it timed right, it has a good chance of putting a rod through the block in the next few thousand miles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccrinc Posted May 3, 2012 Share Posted May 3, 2012 I thought that's what I just said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted May 3, 2012 Share Posted May 3, 2012 Just reinforcing the point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imcdowel Posted May 3, 2012 Author Share Posted May 3, 2012 I aligned the pulled all at 12 o clock. Put it together car cranks but won't start... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davebugs Posted May 3, 2012 Share Posted May 3, 2012 Spark? Crank and cam sensor plugger in? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imcdowel Posted May 3, 2012 Author Share Posted May 3, 2012 it ran before this... barely, and i didn't unplug anything that might be like that. everything seemed right perhaps only a hair off... did the belt jump you think? something like that.... any thoughts? I'm going again tomorrow to investigate again. I'm getting really good at getting in their now lol. and you guys are very helpful. I'm glad your not a bunch of punks who know nothing or don't try to help. makes me happy to see Japanese car owners who care do you think the motor might have died or the valves are to bent? it wont even start up now. i don't know if this helps but you know how a Chevy cranks? clunk clunk clunk vroom? this doesn't sound normal.. its almost one continuous crank very smooth sounding. only started to lope as the battery died out. maybe that's normal. this only my second Subaru i ever worked on. hope its just a matter of trying again. i also didn't unplug the battery for this work? maybe its memory is jacked up and i need to unplug it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davebugs Posted May 3, 2012 Share Posted May 3, 2012 It's sounding more like bent valves - which would be no surprise. You're basically saying the starting sound is constant - as in no compression it sounds like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imcdowel Posted May 3, 2012 Author Share Posted May 3, 2012 God dang it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted May 3, 2012 Share Posted May 3, 2012 its almost one continuous crank very smooth sounding.classic bent valves sound. it's not making any compression so it can turn easier and smoothly with no lumpiness as it builds compression. i mean, make sure of course that your belt marks are all dead on first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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