Precisely where will I find the EGR parts on my '05 turbo? (diagram inside)

[bulwnkl]

So, it would appear that my turbo Baja ('05) indeed has an EGR system. Here's the Opposed Forces page that makes me think so:

http://opposedforces.com/parts/legacy/us_b12/type_39/carter_ventilation_recirculation/emission_control_egr/

 

So where, exactly, are the diagrammed parts located? Right side (American passenger)? Left side? Front? Back? Top? Bottom?

 

I'll search separately, but all please feel free to comment on what happens when the EGR system on this engine 'malfunctions.' Thanks!

[1 Lucky Texan]

So, it would appear that my turbo Baja ('05) indeed has an EGR system. Here's the Opposed Forces page that makes me think so:

http://opposedforces.com/parts/legacy/us_b12/type_39/carter_ventilation_recirculation/emission_control_egr/

 

So where, exactly, are the diagrammed parts located? Right side (American passenger)? Left side? Front? Back? Top? Bottom?

 

I'll search separately, but all please feel free to comment on what happens when the EGR system on this engine 'malfunctions.' Thanks!

 

on that drawing you linked, looks like they're showing it mounted behind a plate which itself is mounted to the front of the pass side strut tower ('A') with a 'brace-section' probably going to the inside of the fender.

[johnceggleston]

in the 90s the EGR was located on the intake manifold, driver side, and had a pipe that extended down to the rear of the head which tapped into the exhaust port on the head.

 

where ever it is , it connect the intake to the exhaust. duh!!!

 

edit: there is no EGR valve in that pic.

 

what makes you think you have one?

 

also in the 95 - 98 cars, the ej22s with auto trans had EGR and the manual trans did not. and EGR is all about emissions. so the auto cars needed it ot meet specs and the manual cars did not need it. so the bottom line is if the 05 baja needed it to meet emissions specs, it would have it. but it dose not look to me like it does. 96 - 99 ej25 have EGR. 00-01 ej25 do not have ER. 02-04 ????????.

Edited May 5, 2012 by johnceggleston

[bulwnkl]

Thanks for the location info, 1 Lucky Texan.

 

Johnceggleston, I'm not sure I'm quite up to speed with you. The diagram is (according to Opposed Forces) the parts for the EGR system on the turbo A/T Baja (which they refer to as the Legacy pickup), and item/part #2 is called the "Valve assembly duty solenoid."

 

I do not have any idea whether I have an EGR system on this engine or not. At one point, I felt certain I did not. However, something recently caused me to go searching again for info, and it was actually one of your posts which got me to digging around more on the Opposed Forces site. The linked diagram made me think perhaps there _is_ such a system on my trucklet, but I do not know.

 

If that diagram doesn't show an EGR valve, what do you think it's showing? Again, I have no idea, so am seeking information.

[Fairtax4me]

Duty solenoid valve is likely the purge valve for the evap system, that has nothing to do with EGR.

Strange that they would list it that way.

 

This is a typical EGR valve. http://www.autopartswarehouse.com/details/QQSubaruQQForesterQQOES_GenuineQQEGR_ValveQQ1999QQW0133-1653096.html?apwcid=P1135867996W43b3f85c7ab9e&apwidabXqOw1=&sa=X&ei=gXqlT8_mDuSX6QGR4p2mBA&ved=0CFkQ9gIwAg

[bulwnkl]

Well, I _think_ I found the parts they're referencing in the diagram, on the right-hand side strut tower as 1 Lucky Texan said. There's no way that's an EGR system, though, as the lines don't go to the right places. There are a pair heading backwards through the firewall, though, so evap purge solenoid would make sense. I guess I'm back to 'my Baja does not have EGR.'

?

[1 Lucky Texan]

maybe we should backup.

 

what problem are you having? Did you throw a code that indicates an EGR problem?

 

anyway, I think it's clear that, the diagram linked is not the actual EGR valve - though perhaps the EGR valve is vacuum controlled. On newer cars though, I think it's electrically controlled so - that diagram's description may be a misprint of some kind.

[bulwnkl]

Whoa! Sorry, Lucky, I thought I had replied already.

 

My Baja shows less-than-great combustion efficiency, so I'm checking over things that might contribute to that. EGR is a common cause for trouble on some vehicles, because the EGR valve sticks or carbons up. Personally, I suspect that the relatively low compression ratio of the EJ-255 in the Baja is the primary factor here, but I'm just checking things over to make sure I haven't missed something. That's all.

 

And I agree; no EGR here!

[Fairtax4me]

"Less than great combustion efficiency"- Sounds like it just needs a tuneup and some Fuel system cleaner.

 

Did you find this out via an emissions inspection?

[bulwnkl]

Oil analysis reports. It's been this way since I got it, despite all kinds of tune-ups, cleanings, ultrasonic clean & rebuild of injectors, etc. I've eliminated the tune-up items.

 

I got going down the wrong track because of the diagram on that linked page, but you guys have put me right. Thanks!

[Fairtax4me]

Oil analysis tells all. That could mean worn or stuck rings. What kind of oil do you use? How many miles on this beast?

[1 Lucky Texan]

have you checked the oil pressure? maybe you're just not lubing the rings well. Maybe a compression and leak-down test is in order. have you replaced the PCV valve and inspected the hoses? How does it run? Some folks have slipped a single tooth on their timing and had the car be 'almost' right. maybe you could get the long and short term fuel trims. I see them in FreezeFrame data on my scanner when the car throws a code. Engine temp sensor can make it run rich often without throwing a code. (at least, on older soobs - not sure on an 05. Pretty sure it's one sensor now. In with the coolant gauge sender. Older soobs had 2 different sensors)

 

anyway hope you get it sorted out.

Edited May 9, 2012 by 1 Lucky Texan

[bulwnkl]

Seems to run well, apart from the 'lope' at idle (only does that in neutral; never in drive). Gets better mpg than the window sticker, too; ~23mpg commuting on mostly freeway. Truck has 132,0xx on it. I bought it with 77-ish on it, IIRC.

 

I tried the PCV valve once, but Subaru sold me just the actual valve itself (that's all I asked for, so I guess it was kinda my fault), and I could not get it out of the plastic christmas tree thing. If I gripped any harder the wrench was going to crush it. So, I put all the turbo- and intercooler-related stuff back on and left it.

 

For oil, I've been using Renewable Lube's Bio-Syn for quite a while. Usually their 5W40HD, but I've run a decent amount of their 30-grades, too. RTS 5W40 has been in there before for an Auto-RX cycle. RTS absolutely _killed_ the mpg. The Bio-Syn does MUCH better, and it uses much less of it.

 

Haven't ever done a compression test. If that's bad, I don't really want to know. I think I'd rather run it until it grenades than have that nagging at me. With the good (for a turbo Baja!) mpg, though, I struggle to believe there's a compression problem.

 

Plugs have been replaced a couple times since I've had it, as has coolant. I've also flushed the brake fluid, but I doubt that's pertinent here. I did the timing belt, pulleys, water pump, etc on-time, and mpg, running condition, and analysis reports did not change thereafter.

 

I've checked for intake leaks using the ether spray method; none found. I've cleaned the MAF sensor with electrical parts cleaner before. That DESTROYS mpg for a tank or three, but then it's all back to normal.

 

It's been a while since I logged anything on this trucklet, and I was at high elevation in Idaho when I did. Fuel trims were running negative, both short- and long-term, at the time. I've considered the O2 sensor, but again have resisted on account of good mpg.

 

The turbo may be tired. A 'remote' tuner person I was working with at one time suggested that. Still, I don't run boost much on the commute, so I'm not sure how that comes into play.

 

I'm prepared to write it all off as a red herring I fished up for myself, but if you guys disagree or think I've skipped over something I shouldn't have, or didn't think of, I'm listening. Maybe I should just stop doing the analyses!

[1 Lucky Texan]

sounds like thing are good overall. Wondering if you could go to a 10W-40. maybe a little less blow-by if that was the issue with the oil analysis. Might still be a good idea to check the oil pressure. There are a few documented cases of cracked oil pickup tubes. Do 05s have that screen on the turbo oil supply banjo bolt? probably not pertinent - just wondering.

 

wonder why cleaning the MAF has such a weird, long-lasting effect?

 

Do you run 93 AKI? some folks have found bad knock sensors. fuel trims sound really good but where's the timing set ?

 

anyway, just throwing out some oddball ideas. You've got all the obvious stuff covered it seems.

[bulwnkl]

91 AKI is the highest that I've seen here, and I do use it exclusively. I used to run 88 in Idaho (that's mid-grade from the one chain I used to frequent there) if I knew I was just flat-land commuting. Going up into the hills or towing or anything, I had to switch to 91 or 92 to avoid the ECU pulling timing and boost in response to significant knock. As an aside: I've noticed that when temps (IAT, I assume?) get too high, the ECU puts a hard limit on boost at ~0.045 MPa (IIRC; that's based on the dash gauge). Once it cools down a bit, boost goes back to normal. So, I lose power on those 110+ days, or ~95+ in heavy traffic.

 

You're right that a slightly thicker oil reduces consumption. It's coming through the turbo, best I can tell, as the intake piping downstream thereof was a bit oily when I took it all apart to get to the PCV valve. A 5W-anything will disappear more rapidly than a 10Wxx, excepting for the RLI 5W40HD. It doesn't use that fluid hardly at all. 5W40 RTS runs through badly, though.

 

I'll see if I can still get my ooooold Windoze laptop to run, so I can look around and maybe log some things in there.

 

Is there a convenient place to tap in looking for oil pressure?

 

There is a TSB that covers the oil screens on '05 turbo Bajas, but my VIN is not in the range listed.

 

Thanks for the suggestions!

[1 Lucky Texan]

I dunno, maybe give that PCV another shot.

 

good luck

[Fairtax4me]

Oil in the intake piping is generally coming through the breather hoses. These are the hoses that connect to the valve covers and run in some convoluted manner all over the engine, but ultimately connect to the intake piping somewhere between the air filter and the turbo. The idea is that the breather hoses pull clean air into the crankcase, in order that oil vapors will be carried out (via intake vacuum) into the intake manifold via the PCV valve. When under boost two things happen. 1. The PCV valve closes, otherwise boost would just go straight into the crankcase. 2. Boost pressure in the cylinders causes compression and exhaust gases to blow by the piston rings and into the crank case. The blow-by has to have somewhere to go, so it ends up going out through the breather hoses (which would normally be the entrance) and in the process carrying the oil vapor (that would normally be pulled through the PCV valve) with it. The vapor collects inside the intake tubing and intercooler, eventually getting burned off a little at a time when it finally gets sucked into the engine, but a fair amount of oil can build up in the intake system through this manner.

This can also happen if the PCV valve fails to close completely.

 

Some people use "catch cans" to try to collect the oil rather than let it go into the intake. It's a sound practice and works very well if the catch can is designed properly. It means re-routing some of the breather hoses and checking and emptying the can every few weeks, but it does help with overall performance and running of the engine. Spark plugs foul less often, and it could likely help your less-than-great combustion efficiency.

 

With that kind of mileage a bit of ring wear is to be expected, especially on a turbo engine, and that will contribute to oil consumption and blowby. Even a small amount of oil getting past the rings or sucked into the engine through the breather system will affect combustion.

[1 Lucky Texan]

Oil in the intake piping is generally coming through the breather hoses. These are the hoses that connect to the valve covers and run in some convoluted manner all over the engine, but ultimately connect to the intake piping somewhere between the air filter and the turbo. The idea is that the breather hoses pull clean air into the crankcase, in order that oil vapors will be carried out (via intake vacuum) into the intake manifold via the PCV valve. When under boost two things happen. 1. The PCV valve closes, otherwise boost would just go straight into the crankcase. 2. Boost pressure in the cylinders causes compression and exhaust gases to blow by the piston rings and into the crank case. The blow-by has to have somewhere to go, so it ends up going out through the breather hoses (which would normally be the entrance) and in the process carrying the oil vapor (that would normally be pulled through the PCV valve) with it. The vapor collects inside the intake tubing and intercooler, eventually getting burned off a little at a time when it finally gets sucked into the engine, but a fair amount of oil can build up in the intake system through this manner.

This can also happen if the PCV valve fails to close completely.

 

Some people use "catch cans" to try to collect the oil rather than let it go into the intake. It's a sound practice and works very well if the catch can is designed properly. It means re-routing some of the breather hoses and checking and emptying the can every few weeks, but it does help with overall performance and running of the engine. Spark plugs foul less often, and it could likely help your less-than-great combustion efficiency.

 

With that kind of mileage a bit of ring wear is to be expected, especially on a turbo engine, and that will contribute to oil consumption and blowby. Even a small amount of oil getting past the rings or sucked into the engine through the breather system will affect combustion.

 

 

good post

 

I wonder if valve lash needed adjusting, you could get fuel/gasses in to the oil through worn guides/seal as well.

[bulwnkl]

A catch can would be great. I just haven't ever tried very hard to contemplate how (nor where!) to install one under-hood. Maybe once the summer is over this November...