steering rod joint play and other misteries

[turboguzzi]

Lets start with the good stuff

 

After thinking i have to do again the left front CV or worse, a front wheel bearing, I changed today to summer tires and what do you know..... clicking noises stopped completely... stumped.

 

remember reading here about certain tire brands (cheap winter tires in my case) able to cause noises that could sound like bad CV or bearing, well, the legend is true it seems.

 

now for the bad stuff. the inner ball joint of the steering rod, i.e. the one under the rack and pinion rubber boot has developed play. see pic, item in red

 

problem is i cant see this item in the OF diagram

http://opposedforces.com/parts/legacy/en_b11/type_23/steering/power_steering_gear_box/

 

any links to related sources/fixes will be appreciated.... and check your tires before stripping a front end!

 

TG

Edited May 14, 2012 by turboguzzi

[Fairtax4me]

Search for Inner tie rod/ tie rod - inner. If you are trying to order online, I'd suggest emailing the dealer first to confirm which part number you need. From that listing I believe it is number 42.

[turboguzzi]

thanks john

 

think i manged to locate an aftermarket spare.

 

next question is then: can i manage to unscrew the the tie rod from the steering rack without the special tie rod tool as seen in some DIY videos?

 

it's hard to justify buying it for just one rod, my first in 8 years of subaru ownership and here in italy, there's no tool rental from shops...

 

looks to me like a crow foot with 1/2" is an option, dont know yet what size

 

any other ideas?

 

Grazie mille

 

TG

[lmdew]

Yes, you do not need a special tool. You will see the locking tab washer on the inner side.

 

It's very easy to bend it out so the v locking dent is out of the way. Then just un screw it. I've been able to save and reuse the washer. Sometimes the little tang, breaks off. If so get the new locking washer.

[turboguzzi]

thanks imdew

 

sounds like those joints arent screwed on too snug then? was a bit afraid that it might require high torque to undo it form the rack.

 

tried to search for a tie rod "how to" post with pics in the forum but havent found anything..... any links?

 

TG

[Fairtax4me]

Big channel lock pliers. You don't even have to bend the little notch out, just turn the joint and it will shear off. The new tie rod comes with a new lock washer It is fairly tight, but special tool is generally not needed.

[987687]

The inner tie rod is actually really easy to replace. I've done a few of them with no special tools. Unstake the washer, there are two different designs here. It's obvious once you have the boot off. Then I just use a big pipe wrench to break it loose. It's a good idea to replace the boot while you have it apart. It's not that expensive, and it's a no fun thing to replace after you have it all aligned.

 

If there's any play at all in the outer end, it's a good time to replace that as well.

The trick to getting that loose is taking the castle nut off, and beating really hard on the 1" thick metal of the knuckle right where it goes in.

Since I'm bad at describing things, here's a picture (not subaru).

Hit where that nub is sticking out.

http://www.autoclinix.com/Mercury/TieRods2.jpg

Edited May 16, 2012 by 987687

[turboguzzi]

OK, got today the part, only disappointment is that it doesnt come with a new washer, dam**t... cant see why the kit skimps on a 5 cent part.

 

its 32mm between the flats, got a thin wrench to do it up, if not, then there's always the pipe wrench, even if from memory there's a sub frame member passing under blocking free access. is it accessable form above maybe? havent checked, will try during the weekend

 

for the euro owners out there, tried to get a moog SU-AX-2866 for it but ended up with a sidem 83010 ????? , friendly shop owner told me these are from the same mfg. just sold under different brand names for marketing / distribution reasons.

[Fairtax4me]

Not accessible from above. The cross member is in the way. Worst thing is trying to work around the sway bar, but it's not so bad if you turn the wheel so the rack extends in the direction of the joint you need to replace. You can remove the jack plate and the sway bar mounts from the cross member and lower the sway bar down.

[987687]

It's been about 2 years since I did it on my 96. But I don't remember having to pull the sway bar. I think with the rack at full lock I could get to it with a pipe wrench. It was rather tight, but possible.

[Mikevan10]

I plan to do the same job this weekend on my '97 Legacy - both sides. Also hope to replace both ball joints and replace an outer CV joint boot. None of this seems like it should be that difficult but I have been reading many tales of woe on this forum concerning all of these tasks! I probably should not have done that reasearch....

 

Good luck Guzzi!

 

Mike V.

[987687]

I plan to do the same job this weekend on my '97 Legacy - both sides. Also hope to replace both ball joints and replace an outer CV joint boot. None of this seems like it should be that difficult but I have been reading many tales of woe on this forum concerning all of these tasks! I probably should not have done that reasearch....

 

Good luck Guzzi!

 

Mike V.

 

Ball joint will probably be the worst of the lot, if you live in a salty roads in the winter area... They're gonna be stuck like all hell in the knuckles. Start spraying PB blaster on that ball joint pinch bolt for a week. That's something you REALLY do NOT want to break off.

[1 Lucky Texan]

is there a way to use the following technique?

 

 

 

 

[987687]

is there a way to use the following technique?

 

 

 

 

 

That's a good idea. I might have to give that a try, see if I can make it work on a subaru. The issue here is getting it out of the knuckle, but same method should apply.

I still can't get the driver's side ball joint out of my gl. Either the cortrol arm or the knuckle. I had both loose so it could have popped out of either. I have a 4' crow bar jammed in there jumping on it... They can stick wicked tight.

[1 Lucky Texan]

I read of a test of 'penetrating fluids' once and a 50.50 mix of acetone and ATF fluid (I'm guessing Dexron III or similar) worked better than Kroil or PB Blaster or some other brands.

 

I think you have to shake it up before use. i wouldn't get it near any paint or plastic I cared about though.

 

fyi

[Mikevan10]

That is a clever trick for getting the ball joint stud out of the control arm! I will have to see if the geometry is such that it will work on the Legacy. However, I normally have good luck with the old "smack the end of the control arm" method. Never really an issue. In fact, I just had both ball joints separated from the control arms two weeks ago when I replaced the clutch in this car.

 

What I am concerned about (only due to reading horror stories on this forum) is getting the pinch bolt out and getting the ball joint out of the knuckle. I will not have "a week" to soak the area in penetrant. Maybe overnight at most but I more likely it will be a half hour or so.

[Fairtax4me]

Just be prepared to drill the pinch bolt out. Drill it all the way through and put in a longer bolt with a nut on the end. Getting the ball joint out of the knuckle can be a trick. Usually the control arm will separate from the stud easy enough with a pickle fork. When it does, put the nut back on the end but leave a 1/2" of space, then wail on the control arm with a 4lb sledge.

[Mikevan10]

Should I prepare for drilling by procuring a couple of cobalt bits or are people getting away with high speed steel?

 

Thanks for the comments and support folks.

 

And thanks for the thread, Guzzi!

[987687]

There's no reason to ever use a pickle fork for anything. It just ruins the boot. If you're replacing it, whatever. But there are tools that make separating ball joints easier and less damaging.

[turboguzzi]

OK, inner joint done, went really quick, 30 minutes in all

 

steering the rack all the way out gave pretty good access to the joint.

 

problem points were that you need a thin spanner to fit over the inner rack flats to hold it against turning, applying the torque to the rack doesnt sound like a good idea as your essentially mashing it against the pinion teeth . had to use a pipe wrench directly on the joint body. I did had a wrench that fitted over the flats (32mm) but there was no room to turn it.

 

reused the locking washer after straightening it, but the join i bought didnt have the recess to bend the washer into, had to bend the washer over the flats and there was next to no overhanging metal to do so. knowing this, would have ground a slot like in the stock joint before fitting.

 

didnt want to release the outer ball joint taper so the trickiest bit was screwing the tie rod back into it at the tight angle it sits and with all the friction of the new ball joint. doable but not easy.

Edited May 19, 2012 by turboguzzi

[1 Lucky Texan]

OK, inner joint done, went really quick, 30 minutes in all

 

steering the rack all the way out gave pretty good access to the joint.

 

problem points were that you need a thin spanner to fit over the inner rack flats to hold it against turning, applying the torque to the rack doesnt sound like a good idea as your essentially mashing it against the pinion teeth . had to use a pipe wrench directly on the joint body. I did had a wrench that fitted over the flats (22mm) but there was no room to turn it.

 

reused the locking washer after straightening it, but the join i bought didnt have the recess to bend the washer into, had to bend the washer over the flats and there was next to no overhanging metal to do so. knowing this, would have ground a slot like in the stock joint before fitting.

 

didnt want to release the outer ball joint taper so the trickiest bit was screwing the tie rod back into it at the tight angle it sits and with all the friction of the new ball joint. doable but not easy.

 

 

what brand replacement did you get? wondering if a different brand would have the slot.

 

I have never done any rack work and am having trouble visualizing how this went, but it sounds like you did pretty well overall so, congrats!.

[turboguzzi]

it was a Sidem brand tie rod. the company is based in belgium but i guess it doesnt mean much these days , read they have factories in lower cost eastern europe. i am based in italy BTW.

 

guy in the shop said this is re-branded moog, but wouldn't bet on the either

 

making a slot with an angle grinder before fitting would have been a 15 seconds job though, pitty i noticed only after everything was in place.

[987687]

I've never had an outer tie rod not come out. Sometimes it takes more hitting with a hammer than others. But I work on super rusty cars up here, they all come loose.

 

Some inner rods have the notch in them, some have a flat side with a wider washer. They usually come with the correct washer for the application.

[turboguzzi]

I've never had an outer tie rod not come out. Sometimes it takes more hitting with a hammer than others. But I work on super rusty cars up here, they all come loose.

 

Some inner rods have the notch in them, some have a flat side with a wider washer. They usually come with the correct washer for the application.

 

managed to thread the rod into the female thread of the outer joint just like that so didnt even bother trying separating it,

 

and yep, it kinda sucked that the rod kit didnt come with a wider washer i could bend over the flats more easily... wait, it didnt come with ANY flat washer...

Edited May 21, 2012 by turboguzzi