topsecret Posted May 16, 2012 Share Posted May 16, 2012 I was driving up to the mountains for some light wheeling in my newly lifted 91 legacy and i broke my new toy. I was driving for a couple of hours and the temperature guage started to go up very quickly. Let me start by saying I have a rusty old heater core in the car so i made a loop around in it in the cooling system; i disconnected and then used a hose connector between the send and receive hose a because of some cooling issues. While doing this i replaced the thermostat and removed the radiator and flipped it upside down and ran a garden hose through it. The cooling issues initially had gone away but apparently after a few hours on the road they were going to decide to come back. So here is where it gets weird. i popped the hood and burped the radiator with the air valve on the left side. I got back in the car and the temperature guage had completely returned to normal. I didn't add coolant. I tightened the air release up and continued driving for another hour to hour and a half with no issues. Then the car started heating up again, i was close to a gas station this time so i pulled in. While turning into the gas station i noticed my blinkers were no longer working. I turned the car off, gassed up, and burped the system again and put fluid in just in case. It did take a little bit of fluid, but not too much so it didn't seem like it was very low. I started the car again and returned to the highway to head home. The temperature guage was normal again. I began driving down the pass and started realizing the lights getting dim on the dash, and then the stereo started acting up. I lost low end power and by that time i knew (or at least i'm pretty sure) the alternator was going. I put it into neutral and coasted down the pass all of the way down the valley (about 20 miles of powerless coasting), by the end i lost all power. Roadside assistance towed me home. That's a whole lot of back information but the actual question is, Was my alternator effecting my radiator when it was slowly dying? Or am i still dealing with 2 different issues here? I really thought i had the cooling system issues licked and these are completely different symptoms than were present before the cooling system work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rooster2 Posted May 16, 2012 Share Posted May 16, 2012 The cause needing multiple burping sounds like a head gasket problem to me. The electrical problem sounds like a bad alternator or battery, or both. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted May 16, 2012 Share Posted May 16, 2012 No one seriously knows how to fill a cooling system? Lets do it properly first then go from there. As long as we are drainig it replace the T-stat and radiator cap. Park car on levle ground Start car SLOWLYfill cooling system with 50/50 premix NOT TAP when filled wait for a surge out the radiator, this will be the t-stat opening up. Continue SLOWLY filling. Once filled put cap on, fill overflow, drive around block let cool down. Check levels Repeat ONCE if needed (If more then once you have a HG issue). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topsecret Posted May 16, 2012 Author Share Posted May 16, 2012 Wow! that response was unwarranted at best??? I don't remember asking how to fill a radiator? Obviously i did all of the steps to fill the radiator after i unhooked and then hooked it back in. What out of my post made you think that i didn't correctly fill the radiator? Please go talk down to a different poster in a different thread. I know my question was long winded but you should have at least read it if you wanted to respond. All of the radiator work was a back story to get you to where i am at. It didn't overheat, it didn't boil over, there were no bubbles in the coolant. I was simply asking if somebody knew which systems of the car were affected by my dying alternator first. Obviously if the fans were shutting off while i was driving that would make the car get hotter than usual. Correct? So thanks for answering my question about the alternator with a b/s response on how to fill my radiator. So, back to the question, Anyone had this happen before? The alternator is back in and the car is running fine for now. The temperature guage is in it's normal spot. I have driven it around with no issues (not for 2 hours but for several blocks) I was just wondering whether i should still be chasing a cooling gremlin or if it could be explained by the alternator. I'd rather not dig back into it if i don't have to, but i also don't want to get stuck on the highway again. I'll be going to the parts store to do a coolant check to check for exhaust since that is a common theme here. I will let you know the outcome. If it is a headgasket leak wouldn't it show up much sooner than 2 hours into a drive? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShawnW Posted May 16, 2012 Share Posted May 16, 2012 Relax. Hes got 16,000+ posts here. He knows what he is talking about. He isn't picking on you. He sees new posters post this same sort of question on a weekly basis. You might not have filled it properly. That's it. Period. Just because you remove the air pockets from the radiator doesnt mean you have from the entire engine. When you fill these engines with coolant you fill it until the bleeder screw is full of coolant, close the screw, and then idle the car until the radiator fans cycle on and off. If you can't get them to do that, the car isn't ready for the road and will overheat. I use a "spill free funnel" and allow it to naturally draw coolant into the system while its idling. It will drink about half the funnel as it idles on some cars. Instead of bypassing the heater core, you could just put two T's in. Removing the heater is removing some of the cooling capacity of the car. Does the heater not produce heat when you had it hooked up? I haven't seen a "rusty" one be a big problem very often, and you could flush it out with a hose and a radiator flush kit. Its quite likely you have a bad head gasket. If you don't have an OEM or factory type thermostat and a proper pressure holding radiator cap those two need to be in perfect condition for a Subaru. I stock them here-and I don't stock a bunch of parts but those two I could probably sell 300 a year of. I find so many cheap aftermarket thermostats and leaking radiator caps on these cars its not even funny. On cars that already are "known" for head gasket issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted May 16, 2012 Share Posted May 16, 2012 Relax. Hes got 16,000+ posts here. He knows what he is talking about. He isn't picking on you. He sees new posters post this same sort of question on a weekly basis. You might not have filled it properly. That's it. Period. Just because you remove the air pockets from the radiator doesnt mean you have from the entire engine. When you fill these engines with coolant you fill it until the bleeder screw is full of coolant, close the screw, and then idle the car until the radiator fans cycle on and off. If you can't get them to do that, the car isn't ready for the road and will overheat. I use a "spill free funnel" and allow it to naturally draw coolant into the system while its idling. It will drink about half the funnel as it idles on some cars. Instead of bypassing the heater core, you could just put two T's in. Removing the heater is removing some of the cooling capacity of the car. Does the heater not produce heat when you had it hooked up? I haven't seen a "rusty" one be a big problem very often, and you could flush it out with a hose and a radiator flush kit. Its quite likely you have a bad head gasket. If you don't have an OEM or factory type thermostat and a proper pressure holding radiator cap those two need to be in perfect condition for a Subaru. I stock them here-and I don't stock a bunch of parts but those two I could probably sell 300 a year of. I find so many cheap aftermarket thermostats and leaking radiator caps on these cars its not even funny. On cars that already are "known" for head gasket issues. What he said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topsecret Posted May 17, 2012 Author Share Posted May 17, 2012 i bypassed the heater core because of the heater not working correctly and when i got in there to check it out (from the engine bay; i have not removed the dash) it was very corroded on the nipples sticking out once the hoses were removed. I was worried about gunk being passed from the heater core and screwing with my thermostat and radiator. I read about the t hose fix and decided that i would instead just loop them for the summer. I figured if i couldn't get around to replacing the heater core this summer that i could do the t hose mod then. That is when i decided to replace the thermostat and flush the radiator (not a flush kit but the garden hose variety). I then refilled the radiator as described. I filled it to the bleeder screw, then ran the car until the fans cycled, I then topped it off. I may very well have a head gasket problem, the car is a 91 with 140,000 miles on it. I'm trying to diagnose that now. However; None of this gets anywhere near answering the question asked so let me re-phrase it to end the confusion If my electrical system is not properly functioning what effect will this have on my cooling system? Since my fans are not belt driven i'm assuming that the alternator dying would cause my temperature to spike because of the fans shutting off while driving on the highway for so long. Can anyone confirm or disprove this theory before i dig back into the cooling system? oh and p.s. 16000 posts or not, starting out a response with "No one seriously knows how to fill a cooling system?" is talking down to someone (especially when the question wasn't about filling the cooling system). I thought questions were the very reason for these forums. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Durania Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 If you stated so, I missed it. Which brand thermostat did you use? Also, the cooling fans should not be running on the highway anyway as you are getting more than enough air flow through the radiator cooling fins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forester2002s Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 nipper's usually right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topsecret Posted May 17, 2012 Author Share Posted May 17, 2012 You're completely right. I wouldn't need any help with air flow on the highway. I don't know where i was going with that:confused so that settles it. two different issues I didn't make it to the auto parts store today because work ran late. i'm guessing the head gasket is bad as several of you have said. I don't have an engine hoist this is going to be rough So, stupid question but, If my car isn't overheating for around 2 hours, is this an indication that the headgasket isn't severely damaged? From what i've seen on the board people with bad head gaskets can't drive even drive 5 miles before they are heating up, with this car it went 60 miles between heat spikes. What should this be telling me? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topsecret Posted May 17, 2012 Author Share Posted May 17, 2012 nipper's usually right. If you notice i never said he was wrong, i said he was rude and off topic. Thanks for the valuable addition to this thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShawnW Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 What you are getting here is that people think its rude to ask a question that you can search for. I see both sides of it, every day. Again, relax and don't point fingers at each other. I think the electrical problem might have helped point the car toward the head gasket failure, if it was getting hot in town in traffic. Sounds like its time to do the cooling system repair and the electrical system diagnosis. Its not always a time thing, its how much load the car has put on it sometimes. Prolonged climbing, car working very hard, towing, etc. Two gentle hours could easily be obtained on some head gaskets. Others, like you said, don't even make it 5 minutes. Typical diagnosis at my shop: Verify factory head gasket and thermostat are on the car, pressure test to check for leaks, look for visual leaks or seeping from the past, look in radiator overflow bottle, check radiator cap pressure, road test again. Sometimes I do half an oil change to really verify. By half, I mean, I check for watery oil and the new oil doesn't go back into the engine until after the head gaskets are replaced. An Ej22 with 140K miles on it isn't usually prime for head gasket failure. Could be water pump gasket or something even. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Durania Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 I would start by buying a new SUBARU thermostat and putting that in. Also, get a new radiator cap if you haven't done so. Those things can cause some weird problems. There is info at the top of the New Gen section about the stant ones that are a direct OEM part. Part numbers are there too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnceggleston Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 (edited) i would bet against head gaskets as well, but anything is possible. as mentioned 3 leading causes of overheating besides head gasket are, wrong t-stat, failure to fill and burp the system correctly and coolant leaks. link below to head gasket explanation just in case you need it. the thread happens to be for the ej25 engine, but it addresses internal head gasket leaks which is the most common type of failure, 99%?, in the 90 - 99 engines both ej25s and ej22s. although gasket failures in ej22 is very rare compared to ej25s, it can and does happen. http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/showthread.php?t=104353&highlight=badheadgaskets i guess it is time to look for bubbles in the overflow bottle when it is overheating. and just so you know, the ej22 head gaskets can be done in the car very successfully without engine removal. not as easily as pulling the engine but still can be done. Edited May 17, 2012 by johnceggleston Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccrinc Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 OK, I read these overheating posts nearly every day and while checking/changing the thermostats, radiator caps, burping, etc. are all on the "do first" list, why doesn't anyone ever think about/mention actually putting in a NEW RADIATOR!? Subaru radiators are well known for corroding from the inside>out. Half of a radiator can be completely useless and look good from the outside. An engine doesn't overheat by itself: it's caused from cooling system issues and guess what: the radiator is the major part of the cooling system. I realize that the general attitude on this forum is "how cheap can I do this?", but a radiator is cheaper than an engine. No, you can't "rod out" a Subaru radiator. You can't "boil out" a Subaru radiator. If it's bad, suck it up and replace it. Geez. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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