Mid Weber swap, I've run into problems. HELP!!!

[benjamachine]

Ok, so Redline says their Weber 32/26 carb is a bolt-on replacement for the craptastic Hitachi -- i hate Hitachis -- in my 1986, EA82-equipped GL wagon. So I bought one, but I've run into a problem. The fuel inlet on the brand spanking new Weber is on the FRONT side of the carb, making it run into the a/c compressor (carb won't seat properly) and putting it in a weird place as far as routing the fuel line goes.

 

Another question I have is what emissions stuff can I get rid of without affecting engine performance? Do I have to keep the Spark Timing Control (TCS) system (and if I do, what do I do with the distributor?), AIR and all of those other devices which, at 26 years of age, are of dubious benefit to operability.

 

I'm thinking that with a Weber, I can get rid of all of that stuff (perhaps the two catalytic converters, too) and get decent gas mileage, etc. Looks like I can get rid of that charcoal canister, EGR, etc.

 

Any ideas? We don't have smog requirements where I live.

[spazomatic]

mine's an 84, so I'm not sure what all differences there are. keep the EGR, and keep the charcoal can. I'd keep the cats too, though mine is gutted.

somebody will chime in with specifics I'm sure

[El Presidente]

A picture of your clearance problems would help..

 

All the write-ups say that the weber will hit the power steering pump, but I've never heard of it hitting the ac pump. You got it on right, right? the choke should be against the p/s pump..

 

All your emmisions and carbon can, can go and all vacuum sources can be capped except for heater controls and brake booster. The only thing that resembles emmisions will be your pcv system which is just 5/8" heater hose. The egr valve can be removed and egr tubes can be cut and reinstalled with quarters or dimes underneath them to block them off. Cats can go too, they block alot of air. Get a dizzy off a carbed ea motor and run that, theres a ported vacuum source on the carb for the vacuum advance. don't be afraid to advance the timing too...I ran 14* advance at idle, on 87 octane. Seal up the fuel return and vent line, but run an older style vented gas cap or do what I did and tear the seal so the tank doesn't over pressurize or lock up from vacuum lock.

 

A weber will fit, but take redlines advice and products with a grain of salt. The customer support staff don't really care or are lazy and the products are not know for their craftsmanship, carbs are good, but redline adapters are known to leak.

 

Josh

[mikaleda]

removing the charcoal canister will decrease your mileage, and as for the cats leave them in just gut them. as for the rest i don't know that is just what i have seen on the cars with the weber upgarde.

[rdweninger]

benjamachine...

I just put my Weber 32/36 DGV5 (manual choke) in my '85 EA82 yesterday as the last step in my complete reseal and Weber conversion. I removed ALL the vacumn lines except the one for the brake booster and the heater controls. I added one vacumn line from the carb to the disty. Plug the remaining vacumn ports on the intake manifold. I kept the EGR but removed the charcoal cannister. I installed a fuel filter with 3 nipples (1 IN, 1 to Carb, and the last one coming off at a 90 degree angle goes back to the fuel tank via one of the fuel vapor lines). Plug the remaining fuel vapor line.

The Weber's fuel intake is facing the rear of the car... the choke should be facing the front of the car. Hope this help.... Ron W.

The car started on the first crank within 2 seconds. Didn't even prime the Weber... and only eyeballed the distributor.

[benjamachine]

Thanks all! Very helpful tips.

 

ONE more thing. WHICH port to I plug on the distributor? It has two vacuum lines on it.

[benjamachine]

...and also, do I need a fuel pressure regulator? And where would I connect the return line, upstream or down stream of the regulator/filter (I can't wrap my head around how fuel will go into the carb at the required pressure if it has another route through the return line).

[rdweninger]

You don't need a fuel pressure regulator. I have 2 EA82's with Webers... neither has one.

The fuel filter you buy will have 1 inlet, 1 outlet. These will be on opposite ends of the fuel filter (say 6 oclock and 12 oclock). Then the 3rd stub (nozzle, nipple) will be perpendictular to the first 2. This is the return line to the fuel tank. I'll get a Fram filter # for you tomorrow. Then you can cross reference it to any brand fuel filter. Ron W.

[benjamachine]

Thanks, Ron!

[benjamachine]

Hey folks. I got back into it today, and there are a few problems.

 

1. In order for the carburetor to seat, it has to be mounted with the throttle plate on the LEFT (drivers) side of the car, next to the a/c compressor. The Redline guy told me that the manual choke Webers (which are apparently the only ones that'll fit on a car with power steering) all have the fuel inlet coming out of the front of the carb if it's mounted with the choke on the front. This is retarded. I could have gotten an electric choke if I'd mounted the carburetor backwards to begin with. THE STOCK THROTTLE CABLE, even when rerouted, DOESN'T REACH AROUND TO THE FRONT SIDE OF THE CARB.

 

2. There are two vacuum ports on the distributor. Which one do I plug, and where do I route the one that still needs vacuum?

 

3. What the hell is that thing on the back side of the engine on the drivers side? It's connected to the exhaust manifold, and has a big 5/8" hose (just like the PCV hoses) running up into the air cleaner. Is this part of the EGR system? None of the books I have says anything about it.

 

4. Why not get rid of the EGR? With all of the things it's connected to, it doesn't look like it'll do much else than cause problems.

 

5. It seems I should keep the charcoal canister for fuel tank venting. Thoughts?

 

6. How dare Redline/Weber market this thing as a bolt on replacement for the Hitachi. It's not as complicated, but their directions suck.

 

Thank you!

[benjamachine]

ALL OF THESE PHOTOS WERE TAKEN FROM THE FRONT OF THE CAR, FACING THE REAR.

 

As I said in the post above, when I put the carb on backward (with the choke facing the rear of the car) the throttle cable doesn't reach (plus, it's dumb that it should go on like that, because that's why I bought a manual choke in the first place).

 

If it's on the correct way, the throttle cable reaches, but the carb won't seat because the fuel inlet is on the wrong side and hits the a/c compressor. AAAHHHHHHHH!!!!!

[El Presidente]

Hey folks. I got back into it today, and there are a few problems.

 

1. In order for the carburetor to seat, it has to be mounted with the throttle plate on the LEFT (drivers) side of the car, next to the a/c compressor. The Redline guy told me that the manual choke Webers (which are apparently the only ones that'll fit on a car with power steering) all have the fuel inlet coming out of the front of the carb if it's mounted with the choke on the front. This is retarded. I could have gotten an electric choke if I'd mounted the carburetor backwards to begin with. THE STOCK THROTTLE CABLE, even when rerouted, DOESN'T REACH AROUND TO THE FRONT SIDE OF THE CARB.

 

2. There are two vacuum ports on the distributor. Which one do I plug, and where do I route the one that still needs vacuum?

 

3. What the hell is that thing on the back side of the engine on the drivers side? It's connected to the exhaust manifold, and has a big 5/8" hose (just like the PCV hoses) running up into the air cleaner. Is this part of the EGR system? None of the books I have says anything about it.

 

4. Why not get rid of the EGR? With all of the things it's connected to, it doesn't look like it'll do much else than cause problems.

 

5. It seems I should keep the charcoal canister for fuel tank venting. Thoughts?

 

6. How dare Redline/Weber market this thing as a bolt on replacement for the Hitachi. It's not as complicated, but their directions suck.

 

Thank you!

 

1. Can you pull the throttle cable bracket off and mount it on the other side of the carb? The stock cable will work, trust me. The choke should be facing the p/s pump and electric chokes will fit if you put a dent in the reservoir. Fuel inlet should be on the passenger side of the car.

 

2. If you have a vacuum gauge(or your finger) put it on one of the ports. The one you want will have weak vacuum at idle, which gets stronger with rpms. The wrong one will have good vacuum at idle and none at cruising rpm.

 

3. Its part of the emmisions system and it can go. Its tied into the exhaust, which I mentioned earlier. You just cut the tubes going off the exhaust and put quarters or dimes under the re-installed flange to seal the hole. Details are in a couple weber threads

 

4. Yes, all EGR's do is help you pass emmisions and cause problems. Your motor will not burn up or run hotter, but it will be cleaner and you'll have a slight power increase. When an EGR is active, it allows inert exhaust gas into the intake stream which reduces your effective displacement, reducing power and efficiency. It also brings in a lot of carbon and other crap into your intake.

 

5. Get rid of the carbon canister, seal the vent hose and run a vented cap. Its the setup webers are designed to run with. Carbon canisters on a carbed car will not increase MPG's, or help in any way..they are strictly for emmisions.

 

6. Its Redline, they suck and we have to deal with it.

 

If you can get or make a new exhaust y-pipe do that instead of gutting your cat. The weird shape and bits left in there will make turbulence in the exhaust stream hurting performance and MPG's.

 

Josh

[Leeroy]

This is why I prefer my Weber carbs with threaded brass fuel inlet pipes. If they are on the wrong side you simply unscrew and swap... Simple. With the push fit style on this Weber I am not sure you can swap them around as easily.

 

Perhaps you can tap threads in your Weber and fit the threaded inlet and brass bung?

 

Also I notice from the photos you have the Redline generic throttle cable holder and throttle lever bracket on the carb. I would suggest these are junk and you should replace both with the original Subaru items. It is quite simple to change the throttle lever bracket from the original Hitachi to the Weber, just do not over tighten or the throttle will be sticky!

[Brat78]

isn't that carb double tapped for the fuel inlet? I believe it can be swapped to the back side.

My weber came with a mispackaged adapter plate, but they did overnight a new one. And the kit number on the box was wrong as well, although redline states that the kit I got is a universal.....might be bs, but the car runs.

[Loyale 2.7 Turbo]

Look ~► Here: http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/showthread.php?t=74206

 

For a Complete, full of Pics, Guide.

 

Kind Regards.

[Gloyale]

Man I just don't understand the Weber thing.

 

rebuild kit for a hitachi is like $25 bucks.

 

you can do the most important parts of the rebuild with the carb on the car.

 

 

I've done dozens, and the cars always run MUCH better with the new carb.

 

 

Important parts:

 

-o-rings for the venturi horns (critical for good spray pattern)

 

-remove and blow out emulsion tubes. (this is the important one to get rid of the "dead spot" betweeen light and full throttle)

 

-remove and clean out jets.

 

-replace check ball, spring, and accelerator pump.

 

 

I ussually don't replace the power valve, or the needle vavle unless there is signs of wear.

[benjamachine]

I had the Hitachi rebuilt a couple of years ago and it gets great gas mileage, but it has never been a great performer. I think that has more to do with all of the external vacuum/solenoid controlled gadgets attached to it than it does the carb, tho. I'm ready for something more simple, and am bummed that it has turned out to be such a hassle.

[rdweninger]

Benjamachine,

hang in there.

My '85 had the feedback carb. It had to go.

I ordered the Weber 32/36 DGE-5A. My fuel inlet is on the driver side and faces to the rear... which is correct.

I used the Transdapt #2107 adapter plate.

I swapped the throttle linkage from my old carb to the Weber.

I had to modify my throttle cable bracket to reach the throttle linkage. I just added about 5 washers under the bracket... and then threaded the bolts from the top. I used some longer bolts I had laying around.

I believe the 5/8" hose that is going to the air breather is the inlet hose for the PCV system. Clean Air is drawn into the Passenger Valve cover from the air filter.

You can 86 the Charcoal cannister. There will be 2 fuel vapor lines on the driver side. I put the bottom one on the 3rd nipple of my Fram G3499 fuel filter. The upper one I plugged off.

I removed ALL vacuum lines, valves, electrical gizmos and brass tubing from my intake manifold (remove it first... some bolts on the bottom).

I kept the EGR. But my other wagon has it plugged off.

Only vacuum lines are heater control, Disty (from the Weber), Brake booster and one for the EGR. I can't help you with dual vacuum disty... maybe just run one from the intake. Swap them if it runs bad.

I had to cut off about 1/2" of the manual choke cable aluminum attachment piece. (it is the most forward piece of the choke)

I had to beat in the power steering resevoir with a ball peen hammer. Just a bit.

The Weber is not 'perfectly' matched for the vehicle... but it did fire up on the first crank. Probably within 2 seconds. I didn't even prime it !

Good luck. Can't be all that bad... you live in Telluride. I've been there. Now get off the computer and get that Weber installed... Later... Ron W.

[ferox]

rebuild kit for a hitachi is like $25 bucks.

 

you can do the most important parts of the rebuild with the carb on the car.

 

 

I've done dozens, and the cars always run MUCH better with the new carb.

 

 

Important parts:

 

-o-rings for the venturi horns (critical for good spray pattern)

 

-remove and blow out emulsion tubes. (this is the important one to get rid of the "dead spot" betweeen light and full throttle)

 

-remove and clean out jets.

 

-replace check ball, spring, and accelerator pump.

 

 

I ussually don't replace the power valve, or the needle vavle unless there is signs of wear.

 

+1 although I do understand the Weber thing. I just rebuilt my Hitachi and I am getting over 31 mpg with good power and that's on an ea81 with 291k. I also installed a new vapor canister which I think is contributing to the fuel efficiency and a super steady idle.

 

I think most people are running with an old vapor canister that has a leaky valve so they have a vacuum leak. When they switch to a Weber they delete the canister, so the Hitachi/Weber comparison isn't exactly straight-across. Benjamachine if you keep the charc. can. I recommend installing a new one. I used one for a '91 Jeep Grand Wagoneer. They are twice a big as the stock Subie one, but they are only $30 at Rockauto.

 

Living in Telluride, you will never get very good mileage and the Weber is probably better for that elevation. I've installed two Webers so far...one on an ea81 and one on my Jeep. In both cases I used the Hitachi throttle lever and fuel inlet-and-return fitting on the Weber will great success. I am not sure if it matters, but I have always installed the fuel fitting with the fuel return on top.

 

Also, I resurface all the base-adapter plate-manifold surfaces the way it's described in GDs thread about DIY head resurfacing. For the manifold and the base of the carb, I remove the studs and use a machinists block as a sanding block. It really makes a big difference in sealing the base, just make sure you get all the grit out.

Edited June 7, 2012 by ferox

[benjamachine]

Thank you all for your help. I finally got in touch with the right person at Redline. His name is Bud, he's one of their ops higher ups, and he actually cares about customers. He's a gearhead's gearhead, and got me all sorted out. He's next daying a new carb top with threaded fuel inlet fittings. Problem solved.

[benjamachine]

But all of this other info is definitely useful. I'm guessing I can leave the EGR on for now, and unplug the vacuum line (it's normally closed, right?). Then I can use the quarter trick to plug the stove pipe coming off of the exhaust port on the driver side under the engine. Quarter and some high temp RTV perhaps?

 

Again, thank you all!!

[benjamachine]

ONE MORE QUESTION!!! Can I plug the coolant passage in the intake manifold? How do I go about doing that? Maybe I can just peen in that little tube in the carb mounting flange, then fill it with JB Weld?

[Leeroy]

Yes you can block off the little coolant passage. I had this welded shut on mine but your suggestion should also work.

[GeneralDisorder]

All you had to do was pull out the press-fit fuel inlet barb, drill and tap both sides, and stick the barb off the Hitachi on it. Brass plug in the other side. No drama or overnight shipping - 1/8" NPT tap and done.

 

I've had to do this at least half a dozen times. Used carbs present this issue often.

 

GD