idosubaru Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 (edited) Bulbs are good. Swapped the transmission switch (park, reverse, nuetral, etc) Fuse is good Everything else works fine, car runs and drives fine, the reverse lights simply won't come on when the car is put in reverse. Now what? Edited June 13, 2012 by grossgary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted June 11, 2012 Author Share Posted June 11, 2012 (edited) I found Pin 10 - which is supposed to power the rear lights - and nothing happens. When I give power to the rear trunk area the lights come on. So the wiring is bad somewhere between the inhibitor switch and the rear trunk area? Edited June 11, 2012 by grossgary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted June 11, 2012 Author Share Posted June 11, 2012 Have power at fuse - fuse is good. Problem now is the FSM wiring colors do not match the inhibitor switch on this 1999 Legacy Phase II EJ22 sedan so I'm finding it hard to test things. And the extra switch I have doesn't seem to have continuity at all on anything off of the vehicle - i can't imagine they would need to be powered in order to have continuity? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazyman03 Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 a break in the line between the tail and the front? maybe check the wire color at the tail and match it with what you have at the relay/switch? or maybe try putting +12 to it to see if you get power to the tail from the front? -Justin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted June 11, 2012 Author Share Posted June 11, 2012 ***Question*** Does the inhibitor switch connector have to be plugged in to the switch in order to test the circuits? With the connector removed should I get 12 volts at positive pin? Because right now I am failing TWO tests: 1.) Not getting 12 volts at the inhibitor switch connector...which suggests something between the fuse box and switch. 2.) Giving 12 volts to the connector at the inhibitor switch will not turn the reverse lights on - suggesting something between the switch and reverse lights. Seems unlikely both are the problem - so what am I missing (besides electrical abilities, i know that) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazyman03 Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 I would say yes? you should get +12 to it assuming it passes it when activated. try probing instead of removing the switch? did you find the wire that goes to the tail? -Justin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted June 11, 2012 Author Share Posted June 11, 2012 I would say yes? you should get +12 to it assuming it passes it when activated. try probing instead of removing the switch? doesn't seem like i can probe, it's sealed so you cant insert a probe from the top, it's very tight. and even if you could i don't think there's room to reach down in that tunnel and get probes in there.... did you find the wire that goes to the tail?yes - when given 12 volts nothing happens. (but i give 12 volts in the trunk they come on - so bulbs/sockets work). ***BUT - i don't have voltage at the inhibitor switch...so I'm confused that there are seemingly two issues. I almost never see wiring issues so it's hard for me to see this being two random wires somewhere... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 The info I have for an earlier model shows power comes from fuse 1 and passes through the inhibitor switch pins 9 and 10. The wire colors are blk/yel and blk/red-yel. There are two connections after the switch going to the lights. B99 is a 24 pin connector and in the right side kick panel. The rear light wire is on pin 10. The other connector is on the trunk lid. You need to see why no power is getting to the switch on pin 9. Once that is fixed power should switch to pin 10 and on to the lights. If they still don't come on then perhaps on of the connectors has a pin connection problem or there is a broken wire where the trunk lid pivots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted June 12, 2012 Author Share Posted June 12, 2012 Since I verified that the inhibitor switch is working - can I simply run a new fused power wire to one side and a wire to the back lights on the other side of the inhibitor switch circuit pins? This is way too confusing at this point with testing showing both sides of the circuit not working. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 Sure, you can run new wiring. Are you sure you are on the correct switch contact pins for the circuit. Do they show a closure when the shifter is in the reverse position? Do the wire colors I gave you match your wiring colors? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted June 12, 2012 Author Share Posted June 12, 2012 (edited) Are you sure you are on the correct switch contact pins for the circuit.yes. Do they show a closure when the shifter is in the reverse position? exactly - no continuity in any other position except Reverse - got those two pins isolated for sure. no voltage on either side and no continuity to the rear on either side either. Do the wire colors I gave you match your wiring colors?that's a source of confusion so i want to avoid pin numbers and colors. maybe because it's a 99 Legacy Phase II EJ22 it's not matching any of the wiring diagrams i have for 98, 99, or 2000 Legacy's or 99 Impreza Phase II EJ22. i was so confused trying to match pin numbers and wire colors yesterday i couldn't even test things...once i simply reduced my thinking to finding the reverse circuit and going from there (ignoring pins/colors) i was able to sort of move on...i think.... off to test some more.... Edited June 12, 2012 by grossgary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted June 12, 2012 Author Share Posted June 12, 2012 For Cougar - on this car it is pins 1 and 2 of the T7 connector at the inhibitor switch. I'm ignoring that for the moment, I have no idea why the FSM won't line up - but I know for certain that's the one that has continuity only when in Reverse...just checked it again to make sure I wasn't crazy. Maybe there's an incorrect part or wiring connector...but it is a Phase II inhibitor switch, looks identical to the original, both switches do the same thing when i swap them, and everything else works perfectly fine...??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted June 12, 2012 Author Share Posted June 12, 2012 *** Update: it is not "working"...with a slight issue. I ran a wire from the inhibitor switch pin to the rear and it "works".....with an odd predicament - the reverse lights turn off when the brake light is pressed...otherwise everything else is normal. So we'll see if it starts blowing fuses but it's working now, with that strange symptom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 (edited) Since the reverse lights turn off with the brake lights turning on then the most likely suspect is a poor ground connection to the trunk lid. The brake lights require more current than the reverse lights do so with a resistive ground the voltage drop across the bad ground will be higher, making less voltage available to the reverse lights. To prove it you can run a ground jumper from a good ground point on the car to a good spot on the trunk lid. If the lights then work ok clean the main ground connection to the trunk lid. Looking at some info for a later vehicle I see a connector (T7) that ties to the switch on pins 1 and 2. The other end of that connector ties to another connector that is marked T3. The wires from the switch tie to pins 9 and 10 of connector T3. So that clears up some of the confusion. The trouble may be with the T3 end of the connector which should be in the passenger kick panel. Edited June 12, 2012 by Cougar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted June 13, 2012 Author Share Posted June 13, 2012 *** I think Cougar you might be able to figure this out with this new info. Hope you're still tuned in, you're so good at knowing this stuff and communicating it! I have 12 volts at the back up light fuse but only 10 volts at the circuit for the back up lights at the inhibitor switch. A ran a wire from the reverse lights to the engine bay and: 1. when connected to this 10 volt pin will not light them up. 2. But connecting that same wire to 12 volts and they light up. So this "low voltage" may be the problem? What would my next step be? I think some of the other powered pins on the transmission connector (all three on the bottom row of the connector i was working with - B12 i think) also only had 10 volts or so....BUT - the reverse lights are the only thing not working AND the FSM doesn't match the pin position or color codes I see on this car so I can't tell what they're for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 (edited) I'm still with you. We need to solve this problem before The Cat can head back to the lair. Since you are only getting 10 volts on the supply lead, and that I assume that is even without the load of the lights being connected to it, it means there is a real bad connection to the power source in the line somewhere. Pretty much all the supply voltage is being dropped across the bad connection and the high series resistance that shouldn't be there. I would first suspect the connector inside the kick panel as the location of the trouble. Edited June 13, 2012 by Cougar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted June 13, 2012 Author Share Posted June 13, 2012 I would first suspect the connector inside the kick panel as the location of the trouble.LOL - the same connector you mentioned in your last post - nice work! did you get that connector location from the FSM? if you have the page number handy let me know and i'll look it up tomorrow. if not no worries i'll find it. fingers crossed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted June 13, 2012 Author Share Posted June 13, 2012 passengers side kick panel pulled - don't see anything obvious...although one of the plastic pins holding a wiring connector/bundle is pulled out as if someone has been in there before. now trying to figure out which connector is related to the back up lights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted June 13, 2012 Author Share Posted June 13, 2012 *** I found B99 24 pole connector. One problem I am likely to have is that so far the inhibitor switch pins and wire colors have not lined up with my 99 Legacy FSM...we'll see what happens here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted June 13, 2012 Author Share Posted June 13, 2012 I guess a dying battery was hosing up the testing, or there's some kind of intermittent thing going on. Voltages look much better today? Have continuity to the B99 connector from the inhibitor switch (wire color and pin numbers match up at this connector) 12.9 volts at battery 12.9 volts at fuse 12.3 volts at the inhibitor switch power supply pin 12.1 volts at the inhibitor switch reverse light pin (when car is in reverse - no voltage when not in reverse obviously) 12.1 volts at pin 10 in the B99 connector guess it's off to find and check the connectors after B99... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 The closest factory manual information I have is for a '95 Legacy. It shows things a little differently. The back-up light wiring is on page 43. The connector nearest the inhibit switch is B12 and it appears to be in the engine area near the transmission. The manual page number is 123. The other connector, B99, is in the kick panel. That info is on page 127. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 I missed your last couple of posts. It sounds like you are hot on the trail now. Since you now state power is getting to the inhibit switch I have to wonder if you moved something while working on things and made a change to a connection point. The next connectors my info shows is R37 and R39 on the right rear side of the car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted June 13, 2012 Author Share Posted June 13, 2012 *** Solved *** Had power to the trunk too... There were two cracked wires where the trunk swings, just past the connector. I had checked there before, early on, and no dice - today after narrowing it down to that area with the multimeter - I yanked and they finally pulled apart as if they had been sliced with a knife clean through making it difficult to see visually. Is it possible for the metal to be broken internally but some of the plastic still attached? I guess because of the two broken wires maybe that's why running a new power wire (which i had already done) didn't quite work - ground was bad too maybe, or shorting out...who knows. Otherwise that should have fixed it to begin with. Thanks for all the help getting me into tracking mode to nail this down. Off to finish cleaning this thing up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 Time for a beer! This typically being an age related issue, we can expect this to either be the one case we ever hear about broke tailgate wiring on these cars, or there will soon be a major flood of people complaining about their reverse lights not working. :-p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted June 13, 2012 Author Share Posted June 13, 2012 Time for a beer! This typically being an age related issue, we can expect this to either be the one case we ever hear about broke tailgate wiring on these cars, or there will soon be a major flood of people complaining about their reverse lights not working. :-p wish you were closer, i would sit with you over a drink indeed! it happens in Outbacks and Impreza OBS - with the swinging rear hatch, they'll break right where the wires flex. I've fixed that before and heard others talk about it. never seen/heard of it in a sedan. interesting - as i stripped the wiring to repair the wires - the metal was very fatigued and breaking off - i had to cut off some wire to get back to less fatigued metal. i guess all the flexing fatigued it over time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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