Intercooler on a non turbo worth it?

[crazyman03]

Just throwing it out there. A buddy gave me a Intercooler that i was *hoping* to install on my Impreza. No, I dont have a turbo, my main idea is to get a few MPG's out of it.

 

Worth the trouble?

 

 

-Justin

[porcupine73]

What is it going to do on a n/a engine? Nothing except introduce additional restriction to the intake. The n/a engine has no heat of compression to be knocked out of the intake air stream.

[crazyman03]

So it wouldnt do anything but likley take a mile or two per gal? bummer..

 

 

-Justin

[porcupine73]

Probably. It's just going to increase pressure drop in the intake, making it less efficient. The intercooler on a turbo engine is to knock out or reject the heat of compression from the turbo when it is in boost.

 

Cooler air is denser, and thus with more air into the engine, more fuel can also be injected, and give more power.

 

But on the n/a engine, there is no heat of compression because there is no turbo, so provided the existing intake is taking air from the fender or just under the hood lip, it's already going to be pret near ambient temp, and the intercooler will not reduce the intake air temp at all, and hence will just add restriction/pressure drop to the intake.

[Subruise]

the only thing cooling wise that an 'interfooler'' does is look cooler. zero impact on performance not related to parking lot posturing

[crazyman03]

the only thing cooling wise that an 'interfooler'' does is look cooler. zero impact on performance not related to parking lot posturing

 

Well then! Now you're talking!

 

Maybe I can trade it for a muffler or something. Though, i was thinking of taking the muffler off and doing just a strait pipe. Though, it is an Auto... so it might just sound dumb..

 

 

-Justin

[porcupine73]

Sometimes when the value of Al scrap is up you can get a few $ by taking radiators, old water pumps, stuff like that in. Usually price is better for 'clean' scrap, i.e. you removing any plastic and stuff like that from it first.

 

Or maybe you could rig up an older supercharger to it. There was a guy on here who had an old Mercedes supercharger set up to run off the power steering belt. Then you could route that through your intercooler.

[crazyman03]

You know, i was kicking the idea for an electric supercharger..

 

any input? or is it just as dumb as the intercooler idea?

 

-Justin

[crazyman03]

something like this prehaps?

 

 

http://www.bonanza.com/listings/TURBO-SUPERCHARGER-SUBARU-SUZUKI-SCION-TC-XA-XB-SEDONA/11809989

 

 

-Justin

[porcupine73]

There are electric superchargers that use a bank of batteries to power it, but the problem is it adds a lot of weight.

 

The problem with electric is the amount of power required to compress the air. When you're talking say 14psi boost at 400CFM flow, that takes many horsepower to compress the air. So that might take who knows, 1000 amperes at 12 volts? That'd be 12kw. Plus the cost of a 12kw 12VDC motor is not going to be cheap, plus heavy.

[idosubaru]

it would probably turn into an "interheater" - because the ambient air is not heated, so what would there be to cool? you would be trying to cool already cool air that hasn't been heated at all - kind of like trying to freeze and ice cube?

 

and as they said - it would be restrictive and terribly inefficient.

[porcupine73]

something like this prehaps?

 

 

http://www.bonanza.com/listings/TURBO-SUPERCHARGER-SUBARU-SUZUKI-SCION-TC-XA-XB-SEDONA/11809989

 

 

-Justin

 

No that thing would be worthless.

 

It says 'High Power 4.5 amp 12 volt Supercharger,'. That's about 50 watts. That is hardly high power. A typical ceiling fan would have more power than that.

[Fairtax4me]

General rule for any turbo/SC is you need 10 HP for every 1 psi boost. To get just 5 psi, you would need a 50hp 12v DC electric motor, which doesn't exist.

[crazyman03]

so being a N/A engine, putting something like a cold air intake and a better air filter would be pointless? I was thinking that might help me a bit. found a kit for it might work?

 

 

http://www.vistaautoparts.com/auto_parts/SR1435X9381797.htm

 

 

-Justin

[idosubaru]

making a non-turbo vehicle "fast" is not really possible...unless you have a ton of time and/or thousands of dollars to put into it (rebuilt block, pistons, valves, cams, porting, polishings, lightweight everything, etc.)

 

yes the cold air intake might give you some increase...it'll be like "i think i felt that" kind of increase. so if that's worth your time then get all the cold air intake, exhaust, fancy filters, and stuff you want and go.

 

you'll end up with something that isn't appreciably better performing, but sometimes it's still fun to learn and try too, most of us have been there at one point or another.

 

can't really make a non-turbo motor much faster, particularly a very small one. forced induction vehicles (turbo's) can benefit enormously from a variety of things, normally aspirated engines have really small percentage gains to be had...almost none really.

[crazyman03]

Well, as performance IS a plus.. i'm really mostly interested in MPG. I'm cheap-o guy and do a lot of O.T.R. traveling.

 

I'd Like to have an added performance, sure... maybe even a little growl under the hood and from the tail. But I'm really wanting MPG..

 

this would help?

 

 

-Justin

[crazyman03]

Also, how would i attach the MAF to it? I'm assuming everything isnt pictured?

 

 

-Justin

[Fairtax4me]

The intake pictured is a hot air intake, despite what the description says. That open filter just pulls hot air out of the engine bay around it, which is going to decrease performance and fuel efficiency.

Your stock airbox pulls air from just behind the passenger headlight (cool air enters from below the bumper then into the engine bay around the headlight housing), through a water separator in the passenger fender (away from heat sources), then into the stock air filter box under the hood. This is a very efficient setup which nearly guarantees you'll get as much cool air (as cool as outside air gets) as the engine can use at all times. The only way to make it "better", is to route the intake opening on the water separator box in such as way as to stay inside the fender, and close off the hole there that leads to the engine bay behind the headlight. If you take some of this stuff apart you'll see how it all works.

 

Also, Oily air filters don't go over so well with these cars. The oil tends to collect on the MAF sensor and "numbs" the sensor, causing the engine to run rough and give poor fuel mileage and performance.

 

Bottom line is, clean paper filter in the stock airbox.

 

Exhaust can help with high end performance but you most often lose low end torque, so you actually end up using MORE throttle to get moving, which is where the most fuel is used to begin with.

 

Do what you please, but Subaru did think about exactly what you're thinking when they designed these cars. Whats the way to get the best power, best efficiency, but overall best reliability out of the car, and they implemented design accordingly.

 

The best "Mod" (and by far the cheapest) you can make is the "Driver mod". Change your mindset about driving, and how and when you use the amounts of throttle that you use. I'm not saying go out an hypermile the thing, but you can change alot by shifting at 3000 rpm instead of 4000 all the time. Shift sooner, and cruise at 65 instead of 75 or 80.

 

Most of the time I cruise at no more than 60, usually 55, and I can easily do 30+ mpg with my 96 sedan on a long drive. I haven;t figured mileage with my lift and bigger tires yet, (haven't run through a full tank yet) but I'm still on track to get at least 24mpg mixed, compared to the average of 25mpg mixed I used to get without the lift.

[Crazyeights]

Another thing you can do is install a vacuum gauge and alter your driving habits to maintain the highest engine vacuum readings. They were installed as "fuel economy" gauges in the '70's and early '80's.

[porcupine73]

The other factor those kits ignore is that modern intakes are tuned for the airflow characteristics of the engine. Just strapping on any old 'cold air intake' is more than likely going to result in lower MPG.

[shortysayhi]

Ill take your Intercooler if you don't need it

[crazyman03]

Ill take your Intercooler if you don't need it

 

What'll you give me? Give me a call 720-663-7078. It'll ask you to say your name before calling, it's not a voicemail, it's google voice

 

 

-Justin

[iceageg]

You might be able to realize a power gain with something like this attached to the intercooler:

 

http://www.summitracing.com/search/Department/Air-Fuel-Delivery/Section/Air-Fuel-Cooling/Part-Type/CO2-Intercooler-Sprayers/

 

Problem is unless you had it turned on constantly draining the CO2 and refilling it constantly, you would still have a drop in performance.

 

So it is possible to perhaps get a performance increase, but not for any practical on-road use.

[iceageg]

General rule for any turbo/SC is you need 10 HP for every 1 psi boost. To get just 5 psi, you would need a 50hp 12v DC electric motor, which doesn't exist.

 

At Forced Aeromotive we bench test every one of our superchargers to ensure they don't draw more than a sustained 8.5 horsepower to produce 4lbs of boost. Most of them spec out between 4.5 and 6.5 horsepower sustained depending on atmospheric conditions and the application. The draw will vary wildly depending on the type of compressor, where it is being operated in relation to its efficient range and the application you are using it for.

[WoodsWagon]

General rule for any turbo/SC is you need 10 HP for every 1 psi boost. To get just 5 psi, you would need a 50hp 12v DC electric motor, which doesn't exist.

I don't buy that. That may be true for the volume of air being moved to build boost on a big block v8, but not on smaller engines. I'm putting 12.5psi into a 3.4l engine with a 4 rib accessory belt that's also turning the alternator and fan. I don't think 120hp is going through that belt.