CV Joint

[Villano]

Hello friends, first I want to apologize for coming over only when my car has problems...

A month ago I was driving to my home in a very slippery dirt road, with a thin layer of mud. (Legacy 2000 Wagon, MT) I was driving very carefully, but the stock highway tires didn't perform good on mud and I ended with both left wheels on a muddy ditch. I put low range and started the maneuvers to dislodge the car, including going forward and reverse with the steering fully to the right. I managed to get out of the mud and drove home. The next day while driving at 65 mph (100 kph) I noticed a vibration from the front end. I thought it was mud inside the wheel what caused the vibration, like a wheel out of balance. It was an up and down vibration, not side to side. I washed all wheels with an hydro washer, but the problem continued. At the same time, the left wheel started clicking when turning right or left. For me, it is clear that the outer cv joint is in its final hours, but searching through the forum I've seen lots of aspects to consider; for instance, the vibration doesn't stop when coasting downhill on neutral.

 

Any guess? Can it be the cv joint plus other thing?

 

Thanks in advance!

[JPX]

Inspect all four CV boots on the front end (actually check all 8 boots at all four wheels).

 

The most likely split boot will be on the wheel end as opposed to the transmission side. If this was split - even a little bit (they usually split wide open) and you sucked up a bunch of muddy water, then that CV is toast. I wouldn't even bother trying to interpret vibration, pulling, or whether or not it is in gear - open boot plus muddy water is not much different than moist gravel in your socks.

 

Plan on an axle assembly changeout - don't both trying to rebuild that CV unless you are being stubbornly cheap.

 

If the boots on a given axle are in generally good condition, then the muddy water shouldn't have caused too much damage. Time will tell - but you will know when it is bad between the noise and the clicking/popping.

 

Another possibility is wheel bearings. But you can diagnose easily enough if you are taking that wheel for a CV/axle change. This complicates things, but is really the best time to address it when everything is in pieces.

[Villano]

Thanks for the advice! I'm gonna inspect those boots soon... Never changed cv's on this car, do I have to replace the entire axle or is it possible to change the outer section only?

[bluedotsnow]

you have to replace the whole axle but if you have a junk yard around you can usually get them for a 4th of the price with a little work.... get some good punches I found a set at harbor freight tools for around $8 and they are very long this is important if things get jammed sometimes not to your fault on removal. I doubt I would have been able to do the job especially as easily without these.

 

http://www.harborfreight.com/5-piece-long-drive-pin-punch-set-93111.html

 

if you are doing the work yourself and have never seen the condition of the roll pins I would suggest getting some from the dealer or the junkyard! on a Sunday with my car half apart I called around to all the auto parts stores in Vallejo, ca that were open NONE had a roll pin the right size, but picknpull did. so be prepared for a broken one just in case. I doubt a picknpull would charge more than a dollar for them. I think the previous owner of my car used a door roll pin for the axle and had it off a spline SLOPPY!

[JPX]

The junkyard is a great low cost alternative. If you can do the additional cost, then a rebuilt axle assembly would be easier to obtain and a little bit better piece of mind.

 

Back to the junkyard scene.....

 

Don't bother starting on pulling the axle unless you have the big socket (30? 32mm?) to get the axle nut off with a BIG breaker bar. Educate yourself with your car before heading to the yard).

 

And YES bluedotsnow's right - you absolutely must have the long punches to drive out the roll pin on the inboard CV flange (similar in concept to the small set screws you see in towel rod flange rings - but with a LOT more hammering). Don't lose it - you'll need it if you can't dig up a new one.

 

If you are tearing apart a yard car yourself, remove the two big bolts/nuts on the bottom of the strut. This will allow you to move the knuckle out of the way to pull the wheel-side of the axle from the hub.

 

You can pull either left or right side - they are symmetric. But they are not interchangeable front to back.

[bluedotsnow]

outbacks and stock use different CV axles too! the difference I believe is in articulation. or maybe its just a production date thing check out opposedforces.com

 

oh on junk yard ED if the trans has been pulled and there isn't anything to hold the trans side of a cv axle enabling you to crack the axle nut just take the spindle and hub or don't even try!

 

if you have trouble with your car's axle nuts there is a point a few hours in where you need to take a deep breath and just know you need to replace the whole hub, I had this moment a few days in..... and its really not that hard at all. sometimes they just get stuck a friend got his axle nut off but the damn thing still refused to come out of the hub....

 

 

USE ANTI-SEIZE!!!!!

[Villano]

Sadly I don´t have junkyards nearby, though there are some stores in the near cities that sell used parts... but first, I'll inspect the boots, maybe tomorrow. That's a lot of info, I really appreciate it JPX and bluedotsnow! I'll keep you informed as I make advances.

[bluedotsnow]

when I saw my first ripped boot I was all set to just replace the boot! but after driving on it and having it fail only a month or two after it first ripped I can see why its better to just replace the whole thing instead of just the boot.

 

mine failed because I was driving in full Front wheel drive much more so than the car is designed for thanks to an rump roast hat shop owner. but still if the boot goes the joint is not far behind. and when re booting you have to make sure to get ALL old grease dirt and water out when a new one is so easy to install.

[1 Lucky Texan]

Sadly I don´t have junkyards nearby, though there are some stores in the near cities that sell used parts... but first, I'll inspect the boots, maybe tomorrow. That's a lot of info, I really appreciate it JPX and bluedotsnow! I'll keep you informed as I make advances.

 

 

an EMPI axle might be an option for you.(rockauto, amazon) about $10 more than a rebuilt - but they are new and properly heat treated. They also come with a new pin and axle nut. No problems with the one I put on the wife's outback. Other good options, rebuilding yours or a junkyard unit, MWE rebuilt soob axles, maybe Raxles, soob dealers supposedly get good rebuilts. Enough people report problems with typical rebuilts from AutoZone, Oreilly's etc. that they should be avoided I think.

 

It's a good time for new struts too if you think yours are worn. An impact driver will help a lot.

[Villano]

I must add that this car is my daily driver and only sits on weekends; some months ago I replaced the center diff ($$$!) and I'm wondering if driving with a faulty cv can make some damage to the vc unit? If the cv fails, the car would stop moving like a 2WD? I'm not planning to drive it to the end, though.

[iceageg]

I replaced the passenger front CV in my 85 last night. I had never done one before but with a decent set of tools it took 1:45 from the time I pulled the car into the garage to the time the garage was cleaned up and I hand washed myself the whole event took 1:45 including the test drive. Most of that was dealing with the ball joint. Just saying this doesn't have to be a weekend project.

 

For my 85 it worked like this.

 

1) Lock your stearing full in the direction of the offending axle

2) Make sure the roll pin securing the inner joint is at an accessible angle

3) Block back tires

4) Break lugnuts loose

5) Jack up car and place jack stands (safety first)

6) Remove the tire

7) Us hammer and a drift to tap the roll pin out of the inner joint (You will need a fairly long drift for this. If you can at least get it driven in far enough you can use a screw driver or allen wrench to drive it through the rest of the way but a long drift is the way to go)

8) Remove the cotter pin and castle nut washer and bushing from the wheel hub (You need a LARGE socket/wrench to do this. The castle nut is in the neighborhood of 30-35MM. I used a massive crecent wrench so I'm not sure of the exact size)

9) Remove the bolt that secures the lower ball joint

10) Pop the ball joint out of the socket *** See Footnotes ***

11) You should be able to pull the break/knuckle/hub assembly far enough away to slide the inner joint apart and rotate it out of the way

12) Push the outer end of the shaft back through the hub assembly (this may take some persuasion by a hammer with light to medium tapping)

13) Remove the old shaf making note of the route it takes around/between any break lines, wires and suspension parts

14) Tap the role pin part way into the new shaft. If it is already inserted for you make sure it is not all the way into the splines. If it is, tap it back out until it doesn't interfere.

15) You could rub a thin layer of AFT on the outer end splines to lube them up and ease installation of the new axle but it mine didn't need it.

16) Pass the new axle into the general location taking the same route through any break lines, wires and suspension bits making sure your roll pin is in at the correct general angle to align with the hole in the shaft and be accessible to a hammer

17) Pass the outer end into the wheel hub but not all the way to the splines

18) Line up the splines on the inner joint so the roll pin can be driven back through and slide the inner joint into place.

19) Drive the roll pin back through the inner assembly

20) Slide the outer shaft through the hub assembly and put the bushing, washer and castle nut back on just enough to keep the shaft from sliding back out

21) Insert the ball joint back into the socket *** See Footnotes ***

22) Insert and tighten the retainer bolt for the ball joint

23) Tighten the castle nut and secure with cotter pin

24) Put the tire back on and tighten lug nuts

25) Clear out anything you left under the car including the jack stands

26) Lower the car to the floor and torque the lug nuts

27) Time for a test drive without clicking sounds

 

*** Footnotes ***

Popping the ball joint out and re-inserting it are the most difficult and irritating steps. It requires a bit of ingenuity, a lot of patience and if all else fails, superhuman strength. Inserting it is just as difficult but requires more finess. For removal I used a tapered drift and tapped it into the ball joint socket to spread it just a tad. I then used a prybar and strength of gorilla to pop it out. If you search for videos you will find a number of techniques using everything from pickle forks to gravity to help. Just be careful not to damage the boot on the ball joint.

 

To get the ball back in I again employed the tapered drift to slightly spread the socket. I also took a moment to gently wire brush the rust off o the ball joint and again put a thin film of ATF on the leading edge of the ball to help lube it into place. Again, be careful not to damage the boot. Since the ball joint is free to flop around the hardes part is getting it lined up with the socket again. I found it helped align the ball and socket when the tires were aligned strait again. Eventually I managed to get them lined up just right by hand and the leading edge slid back into place. With a little gentle tapping it popped right in. Again there are lots of techniques you can find online if this doesn't work

 

In the end the only semi-special tools I needed were a long drift, massive cresent wrench and a good prybar. Everything else was standard socket/ratchet pliers and hammer. It was frustrating at times but it was easily doable in an afternoon during the week.

[bluedotsnow]

how to on ball joints! jack up hub whack control arm after removing crown nut. most of the time a hammer isn't even needed reverse to re install.