torxxx Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 Hey guy, been a while since I posted mainly because my times been put into my SVX instead of playing with the old lifted wagon. Been out playin pretty hard lately, (I'm the smallest rig up here, everyones on 35"+ tires, so I've gotta hammer through a lot of stuff that they idle through) 2nd time in a week the right bank has jumped time 2 teeth on the Cam gear. I am running open covers, and I have since day one of owning this car (14 years now) and have not had an issue with belts jumping when playing, even when I packed the engine bay full of snow. The only thing thats a little different this time is a lot higher RPMS. Engines seen 6000-7000 rpms quite a few times in deep mud holes where if I shifted I'd lose momentum so I've feather the gas into the redline and then let off a lil. Basically it runs at 5k with maybe 2 second bursts at 7k. Tensioners are newish, replaced them 2 years ago. When I do my belts, I put a little extra tension on the belt, figuring that tighter the better? All marks like up, car runs like a champ, I come home from playing, notice that little pop pop pop out the tail pipe, checked the timing marks, 2 teeth off. Anyone else have issues with this? If so whats causing it and what can I do to prevent it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robm Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 (edited) How about worn sprockets? And having slipped once (or more) the timing belt teeth may not be all that great either. The fact that it always slips 2 teeth would seem to indicate it is slipping one tooth at the crank. I find that open belts don't last as long. I have yet to get 90,000 km (recommended change interval) from open belts. Maybe a climate thing, I live in a similar climate to you (cool/wet, snowy/cold). Edited July 6, 2012 by robm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 What brand are the belts? No misfiring or anything prior to the jumped teeth - runs fine up to that point? What are your thoughts on the high RPM's and non-typical use are likely culprits? The passengers side (right side) is looser and probably more prone to slipping? As to lower mileages with the covers off, the EA82's are prone to premature belt failure so that would be hard to correlate. While they easily surpass the 60,000 mile mark, prematurely failing EA/ER belts aren't rare. Add to that the bearings and tensioners are often aged or non-Subaru parts as well so they aren't the same as new either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robm Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 (edited) I am at 2 for 2 with belt failures at less than 50,000 miles with no covers. With covers on, 2 for 2, running to 55,000 miles without any problem. Mind you, I suspect the first failure was due to a seized oil pump. The second one showed itself as a sudden lack of teeth, cause unknown. Idlers etc. all in good shape, with maybe 40,000 miles. I was noticing the last time that the sprockets were looking kind of worn. Worn sprockets on a chain drive cause the chain to wear prematurely, or even slip, so perhaps it happens with timing belt drives as well? I wonder if this is a factor in both my and Torxx's experiences? The high RPM's are likely part of the problem. He may never see that kind of problem if he keeps it below 5K. Getting stuck in the mud is another kind of problem. Edited July 6, 2012 by robm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 running without covers i have noticed that the gears and pulleys rust up particularly if they sit for any length of time, though in the northeast here everything rusts up...that certainly can't help the belts last longer.... GD does tons of EA82's in Oregon and says early failure is really common. he does not consider them capable of consistently/reliably making 60,000 miles. i'm starting to forget, it's been awhile since they've all rusted away out here, the last two XT6's I bought were shipped from Texas and California. rarely see 80's subaru's..or even early 90's stuff any more, if you do it's got big rot holes in the usual places Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caboobaroo Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 Even with OEM belts, they rarely make it to the 60k mile mark. Between oil leaks and coolant (plus whatever else gets on the belts with no covers on) can drastically reduce the lifespan of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
torxxx Posted July 13, 2012 Author Share Posted July 13, 2012 I carry 3 sets of new belts with me everywhere I go. Anything a belt slips, I make sure to give it a good inspection. I'll have to look at the gears when I get back home. I normally buy napa belts just because its the cheapest in town thru my work acct. I dont mind replacing busted belts, thats why I have open covers. it takes what 10 min to change em? I can deal with that every 20k miles, I just hate having to retime the right bank every time I drive the car. The fact that its done it 2x now, exact same jump, same side is really making me wonder. One wouldnt think the metal gears would wear? this engine has around 250k miles on it total run time. the gears on the cams havent been replaced, but the center gears+ tensioners are newer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robm Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 The way it always jumps 2 teeth at the cam makes me think it is jumping one tooth at the crank. I would check those sprockets closely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quidam Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 Hey torxxx, I'd take a close look at the pulleys too. I've seen some pretty rough ones. The rpm you were at isn't a factor, I think. These things will do that all day. One thing I'd check is the bolts holding on the cam case and that they're all tight. From personal experience, if those are out of whack the cam can bind. Doug Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyfun Posted July 14, 2012 Share Posted July 14, 2012 Maybe the tensioner is tired, cause I'm pretty sure slipping on the right side is the most common place for it to slip if there's slack. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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