Ricearu Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 (edited) So, my outback took a giant duke. Rod bearing failure. I have been doing my research and found a few things, and still need more to go. My FSM is pretty good, but misses a lot of O-ring descriptions. and some other things. I know the basics, but does anyone know of a complete write up on this? When I say complete I mean complete though. If not, I am gonna make a USRM of this while I do it with lots of pics. :cool: Here is a diagram of o-rings/gaskets I cannot find part numbers for. If you know their part numbers, please reply to this with them by letter. I plan on doing a ground up on this motor. I am sending the block halves to the machine shop to be decked, the crank to be polished hopefully (only ran knocking for 30 seconds max), acl race bearings to .0018 clearance. which is the spec that subaru uses in all later 2.5's. .0007 was too tight and couldn't keep the rod journals cool from oil flow. .0018 nets 254% more oil flow. I found this info from the blue printing process to put them in small aircraft. Anyways, advice and insight wanted and appreciated. tips and tricks really wanted. Like how do I get the piston pins out without SST. LOL Edited July 10, 2012 by Ricearu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davebugs Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 I recently parted several of these engines (and have more to go). For me, and maybe for you rather than messing with the snap rings on the pistons it was easier to stand the engine(halves really) on end. Wiggle at the 2 sides a bit and walk them further apart. And undo the connecting rod nuts/bolts. Then pull out the pistons. I'm not sure about reinstall though. Every piston removed gives you more room to seperate the halves and get at the rest a little easier. In the only procedure I really found you really only had access to one clip on each piston and driving out the wrist pin definately causes a chunk to break off the piston where the spring clip was. I have some in the garage I can take pics of if need be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WoodsWagon Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 In the only procedure I really found you really only had access to one clip on each piston and driving out the wrist pin definately causes a chunk to break off the piston where the spring clip was. I have some in the garage I can take pics of if need be. You take out the access plug, pull the clip with needle nose pliers, and then either drive the pin out by running a long rod in through the opposite access hole or use a puller of some sort. I made an adapter for my slide hammer that pulls them out pretty easy. If you're loosing chunks out of the pistons, you're doing it wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ocei77 Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 The engine gasket kit includes those O rings. I've used a 5/8 in wood dowel to drive out the wrist pin. It usually leaves the second ring in. O. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 No sense in rebuilding a 48mm block and crank. Trade it out for a '99+ block and crank - get back the 52mm rod journals and the improved #5 thrust bearing. You can use the 25D pistons and rods if you like. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
987687 Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 No sense in rebuilding a 48mm block and crank. Trade it out for a '99+ block and crank - get back the 52mm rod journals and the improved #5 thrust bearing. You can use the 25D pistons and rods if you like. GD How would you use 25D rods, when the 99+ block has bigger rod journals? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 How would you use 25D rods, when the 99+ block has bigger rod journals? Touche! But yeah - you need the rods too. The heat is getting to my neurons. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricearu Posted July 11, 2012 Author Share Posted July 11, 2012 i live in texas. 2.5's don't fall out of trees around here. I don't want to rebuild it really, but I have exhausted the junk yards of any good engines, and NO outbacks, foresters, 95-99 legacies, or anything else with a 2.5. I have only seen one recent outback lately and the motor was toast. I could stick a phase 1 ej22 in it but I still don't have that kind of bank around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
987687 Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 Are you sure the crank in your 2.5 is OK? Depending on how long it went with the bad bearing, the crank might be beyond repair. At that point, it's probably going to be more expensive than just getting a good 2.2. The 2.2 is such a painless swap, timing belt, reseal it, and you're good for the next 100k miles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davebugs Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 Are you sure the crank in your 2.5 is OK? Depending on how long it went with the bad bearing, the crank might be beyond repair. At that point, it's probably going to be more expensive than just getting a good 2.2. The 2.2 is such a painless swap, timing belt, reseal it, and you're good for the next 100k miles. This is what I'd be doing. And actually have done with all questionable 2.5's. Look them up on car-part.com and see if anyone will ship to you. Or take a road trip and pick it up. They aren't that heavy. I've halued them in the back of my VW Golf. An old tire is about all it takes. I always put them on some kind of mat becasue usually they leak - coolant usually. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricearu Posted July 11, 2012 Author Share Posted July 11, 2012 I know, I am going to split the case and check the crank. If it's junk, I will probobly stuff a 2.2 crank in it, as I have a good 2.2 bottom end laying around im pretty stuck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
987687 Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 This is what I'd be doing. And actually have done with all questionable 2.5's. Look them up on car-part.com and see if anyone will ship to you. Or take a road trip and pick it up. They aren't that heavy. I've halued them in the back of my VW Golf. An old tire is about all it takes. I always put them on some kind of mat becasue usually they leak - coolant usually. Every engine has a secret supply of coolant. I got an ej22 that had been sitting for about 3 years. The first thing it did was dump coolant all over me. And yes, it dumped coolant all over the back of my car the whole ride home. And I didn't reseal it before I dropped it in the car. And that bit me in the rump roast. The oil pan leaked pretty bad, but of course I didn't know because it was dry when I got it from sitting. And now the crank seal is dumping oil. I just wanted the car running. Also, I'm lazy and hate working on cars. But that's the 3rd engine I've had to put in the car, so I was getting tired of swapping motors. One of them was a 2.2 with over 300k miles, and the 2nd one was a 25d with around 230k miles, that had been overheated, and then I bolted 2.2 heads onto... Moral of the story is, don't do what I did. High mileage 2.5 blocks that have died are evil. A 300+k 2.2 that burns a qt of oil ever 500 miles and leaks out of every seal, and ultimately runs out of oil and seizes, is also evil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
987687 Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 I know, I am going to split the case and check the crank. If it's junk, I will probobly stuff a 2.2 crank in it, as I have a good 2.2 bottom end laying around im pretty stuck You have a whole 2.2 short block? Well then, just get some 2.2 heads. They're not that heavy, not that expensive. Just have someone ship you some. I'd bet GD or someone has a set they can just send off. I have a single port set of heads, but you don't want that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricearu Posted July 11, 2012 Author Share Posted July 11, 2012 You have a whole 2.2 short block? Well then, just get some 2.2 heads. They're not that heavy, not that expensive. Just have someone ship you some. I'd bet GD or someone has a set they can just send off. I have a single port set of heads, but you don't want that. yeah, its another used bottom end, and the junk yards around here are just about clapped out. No good heads that I have found. The motor I just built for my wife's car that went interferance, I used 300k 95 heads. I lapped the valves, replaced the valve seals, and decked the heads. she runs great but pickins are slim if you know what I mean. AND, the last JY 22 that I bought was toast. Seemed to have compression, but it was apparently the lack of oil that had scarred the cylinder wall.... 105k and it was wrecked... LOL... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricearu Posted July 11, 2012 Author Share Posted July 11, 2012 You have a whole 2.2 short block? Well then, just get some 2.2 heads. They're not that heavy, not that expensive. Just have someone ship you some. I'd bet GD or someone has a set they can just send off. I have a single port set of heads, but you don't want that. yeah, its another used bottom end, and the junk yards around here are just about clapped out. No good heads that I have found. The motor I just built for my wife's car that went interferance, I used 300k 95 heads. I lapped the valves, replaced the valve seals, and decked the heads. she runs great but pickins are slim if you know what I mean. AND, the last JY 22 that I bought was toast. Seemed to have compression, but it was apparently the lack of oil that had scarred the cylinder walls.... 105k and it was wrecked... LOL... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
987687 Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 Heads should last forever, just pull some cam caps or whatever to make sure there's no scratching in the bearings or lobes. I bet someone would sell you, and ship to you, a set of heads wicked cheap. They have no value, 2.2s aren't worth rebuilding. So there's an excess of heads. And the heads never really die. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maugli Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 are you guys saying to put 2.2 heads on 2.5D? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricearu Posted July 11, 2012 Author Share Posted July 11, 2012 (edited) in a stroke of dumb luck, I think I found a 99 outback engine with blown head gaskets for $129. I still need the O-rings so i can split the case and have it's crank polished and put new acl race bearings in it. I will find out sunday. Edited July 11, 2012 by Ricearu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricearu Posted July 11, 2012 Author Share Posted July 11, 2012 are you guys saying to put 2.2 heads on 2.5D? that would make it a high compression engine and I wouldn't advise it on a 96-98 EJ25D due to the undersized rod bearings. We were talking about me having a spare ej22 block laying around and not having heads for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricearu Posted July 16, 2012 Author Share Posted July 16, 2012 I found a 170k mile 99 outback engine. got it for $100 I am splitting the block, so I still need those O-rings part numbers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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