brookhill Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 I have a 98 Forester and just replaced water pump and tried to align camshafts for timing belt. But the right intake camshaft got stuck somehow and not turning right after I removed the timing belt. The other camshafts are free to rotate about half turns. Is there any way to unfreeze the camshaft? Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 so this car was running perfectly fine before you removed the timing belt? this is an interference engine so you never want to rotate the cams without the crank timing mark being lined up. first thing to check is if the crank timing mark is lined up. if the crank mark is properly lined up then your cam is likely not stuck - they are under a lot of resistance due to the valve springs and cam lobes in the valve train, they are very heavily spring loaded and can rip meet off of your fingers when they finally spring forward or back. you're likely not turning with enough force to get it over the springs/cam lobes. if it's actually "stuck" then the crank mark probably isnt' lined up and something is interfering - valve hitting piston or something - never force it and make sure the crank mark is lined up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brookhill Posted July 19, 2012 Author Share Posted July 19, 2012 Thanks for your reply. As a matter of fact, the beginning was bubbles in the reservior and crazy swing of temp gage. And smell of gas in coolant, cold inlet radiator hose and hot outlet radiator hose. So I checked thermostat, it was fine. Then I decide to replace water pump. When I take out the timing belt, I just marked everywhere so that I could just put it on the same marked spots. But somehow when it came off, that camshaft turn spontaneously and off the mark, got stuck. It's 98 Forester EJ25D and only 90,000 miles on it. Crank time mark is off. I'll try to align the crankshaft first and then try the camshaft again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 Lucky Texan Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 (edited) Thanks for your reply.As a matter of fact, the beginning was bubbles in the reservior and crazy swing of temp gage. And smell of gas in coolant, cold inlet radiator hose and hot outlet radiator hose. So I checked thermostat, it was fine. Then I decide to replace water pump. When I take out the timing belt, I just marked everywhere so that I could just put it on the same marked spots. But somehow when it came off, that camshaft turn spontaneously and off the mark, got stuck. It's 98 Forester EJ25D and only 90,000 miles on it. Crank time mark is off. I'll try to align the crankshaft first and then try the camshaft again. wait for someone here to confirm but I think, you want the arrow(piston position mark) to be at either 3:00 position (ideal) OR 9:00 position, whichever is closer. But, don't cross 12:00 or 6:00 until the cams are aligned). Then. later when you reassemble, you may have to move it again after the cams are lined up. anyone? Edited July 19, 2012 by 1 Lucky Texan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 (edited) anyone?actually we're going to shift gears and try to help them save some time and effort. stop, you have no need to install the timing belt. you have a blown headgasket. replacing the water pump has zero chance of repairing this. also don't waste your time on compression tests, leak down tests, or oil and coolant mixing. these headgaskets don't fail like that and will pass those tests. they push exhaust gases into the coolant, causing the bubbling and cavitation that prevents water from circulating. those exhaust gases are also the "gas" you mentioned smelling. Edited July 19, 2012 by grossgary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricearu Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 (edited) your cam is stuck, because you have inadvertently interfered the valves. The DOHC engines are valve to valve interferance and if one set of valves are open, then the other set will interfere if the cams are turned. by the way, you have a blown head gasket. do a top end rebuild. use dealer head gaskets and have the heads resurfaced, torque to spec. If the valves have interfered, try to get them apart and have them pressure checked by the machine shop that resurfaces the heads and if no, then you will need to replace the valves in that head that don't seal. Pretty inexpensive but may be necessary. Edited July 19, 2012 by Ricearu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brookhill Posted July 19, 2012 Author Share Posted July 19, 2012 Will STEEL SEAL work? Anyone tried on Forester? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davebugs Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 your cam is stuck, because you have inadvertently interfered the valves. The DOHC engines are valve to valve interferance and if one set of valves are open, then the other set will interfere if the cams are turned. by the way, you have a blown head gasket. do a top end rebuild. use dealer head gaskets and have the heads resurfaced, torque to spec. If the valves have interfered, try to get them apart and have them pressure checked by the machine shop that resurfaces the heads and if no, then you will need to replace the valves in that head that don't seal. Pretty inexpensive but may be necessary. And I've probably got a head and cams already off if you need them PM me. The cams are on Ebay now, ran outta time with free listing to get the heads listed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davebugs Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 And NEVER pay attention to arrows on a Subaru. "Dots and dashes" - really hash marks on everything. Crank, and all cam pulleys. OEM HG's, idler set, WP, ets. HG repair is well covered here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 Will STEEL SEAL work? Anyone tried on Forester?Not really. Depends on your definition of "work" - it is not "black and white" as folks (on both sides) tend to talk about it. Long answer, it might limp you along if you don't have any intention of keeping the car or that motor any longer. Those types of repairs are best considered short term salesmen type band-aids and can be bad for the motor over the long haul if you ever planned on doing it right. if you just want to drive it into the ground and get another year (or week or nothing) out of it and junk it, then maybe it's worth a try. if the car is in good shape, the motors are generally capable of 200,000+ miles rather easily if the repair is done right, and you'd like to see more miles years out of it - then those bottles of magic are generally best avoided. if you're into a timing belt job though this far - just do the headgaskets, it's not that hard really...time yes, but not that bad. if you remove 3 nuts (2 lower engine mounts and top dogbone mount) you can jack the motor up a few inches and do them in the car rather easily with the battery removed. not bad at all. the annoying part is cleaning all the parts prior to install, just grunt work. be sure to use SUbaru's 610 gaskets (last three digits of part number) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 Steel Seal will only make things worse. Avoid it like the plague. You need to replace the head gaskets. That's all there is to it. A new thread pops up here about once a week asking about the exact symptoms you have. It's nearly a 100% guarantee that the head gaskets will fail on the DOHC 2.5. And you have all the signs of typical head gasket failure. The heads need to come off and go to a machine shop to be milled flat, and have those now bent valves replaced. A full valve job would be ideal and also get the valve lash set properly to avoid burned exhaust valves. 2.5 head gaskets can be done with the engine in the car, but it's much easier to do with the engine out on a stand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brookhill Posted July 20, 2012 Author Share Posted July 20, 2012 Thanks for the tips and inspiration. I'll start and do the head job on weekends. And encountering any difficulties, I'll get back here and ask. I appreciate your help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davebugs Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 It's WELL documented here. Search for skipnospam when I did my first few I mostly relied on it. It's a link to a fella's comcast page IIR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brookhill Posted July 20, 2012 Author Share Posted July 20, 2012 Thanks a lot. I found the webpage. I think I am going to follow his procedure. Great to be here USMB. I should have come here in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 Welcome - good luck tackling that head gasket job. Glad i was able to inform you of the HG problem before you went further on the belts. Be nice to determine if the valves are bent or not soon.... If the vehicle is decent and wasn't overheated previously - the engine/car usually isn't hard to get another reliable and inexpensive 100,000 miles out of. It's annoying but one of those things you could look back in 5 years and enjoy the lack of a car payment you had. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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