2012 Subie With 1950 Buick Tranny

[texasjack]

Recently I drove a 2012 Legacy Sedan with the slip-o-matic tranny.

 

They ruined a great car with that thing.

 

I reminded me of a 1950 Buick Dynaflow tranny.

 

You push the gas and it sits still, push more and the engine revs, more pressure and it starts to move.

 

As it gains speed the engine is going 70 but the car is running 50.

 

All that RPM is wasting fuel.

 

In the Ft. Worth area a standard is a pain.

 

I really enjoy my 2012 Kia Optima.

 

My intent was to but a new Subie but not with that gutless tranny.

 

Jack

[nipper]

Disagree, I cant use the 1950 comparison as I am not that old, but I liked the new CVT. Keep in mind that it is a heavy AWD car and if you want strong performance you want a manual.

 

I don't understand knocking the CVT's all the time. The deliver better gas mileage then epa listings. They operate differently then what we are used two, but I also remember having freinds of my father complain why did they ever dump the (two speed) power glide as two gears were enough.

[aba4430]

Recently I drove a 2012 Legacy Sedan with the slip-o-matic tranny.

 

They ruined a great car with that thing.

 

I reminded me of a 1950 Buick Dynaflow tranny.

 

You push the gas and it sits still, push more and the engine revs, more pressure and it starts to move.

 

As it gains speed the engine is going 70 but the car is running 50.

 

All that RPM is wasting fuel.

 

In the Ft. Worth area a standard is a pain.

 

I really enjoy my 2012 Kia Optima.

 

My intent was to but a new Subie but not with that gutless tranny.

 

Jack

 

Drive another one. Was this new or used, at the dealer lot, or a private party? Could have been a defective one. We had a 12 Outback as a loaner while the AC on our 08 OBS was being repaired and the CVT equipped car felt quite responsive, no slippage etc. The Subaru CVTs (and others these days) are good.

[GeneralDisorder]

The new CVT is a variable pitch pulley design and is quite good. You are simply wrong about it using more fuel - it's more efficient than any other transmission type due to it's ability to always be in an optimal gear for fuel economy.

 

You can't make judgement calls like that based on a single test drive. You do not have a large enough sample data set from which to derive any useful conclusions. Your speculation is unfounded and biased.

 

Kia (and Hyundai - same thing) is Mitsubishi CRAP. I've worked on plenty of them. Take a look at consumer ratings of their cars. Hell their dealer tech's can't even fix them. The engineering and implementation is extremely poor. I work on several Kia's at my shop and when I research my customer's complaints I am astounded by how much information is out there on Kia and Hyundai problems that seemingly can't be fixed. I've read several reports of brand new Kia's being declared lemon's and having to be bought back by the dealer. Having worked on them - I can't say that I'm surprised.

 

GD

Edited August 1, 2012 by GeneralDisorder

[nipper]

Kia and hyundai will never stand up to the miles and abuse a subaru can. They may get great test reviews, but lets see what they are like at 160,000 miles, which is what a modern new car easily make, heck, even 100,000 miles.

 

CVT operational principal is easy. The engine reaches the RPM where it has peak load and effeciency for the speed being asked of it (and load) and the transmission does the work.

Edited August 1, 2012 by Turbone

[ShawnW]

The new CVT is a variable pitch pulley design and is quite good. You are simply wrong about it using more fuel - it's more efficient than any other transmission type due to it's ability to always be in an optimal gear for fuel economy.

 

You can't make judgement calls like that based on a single test drive. You do not have a large enough sample data set from which to derive any useful conclusions. Your speculation is unfounded and biased.

 

Kia (and Hyundai - same thing) is Mitsubishi CRAP. I've worked on plenty of them. Take a look at consumer ratings of their cars. Hell their dealer tech's can't even fix them. The engineering and implementation is extremely poor. I work on several Kia's at my shop and when I research my customer's complaints I am astounded by how much information is out there on Kia and Hyundai problems that seemingly can't be fixed. I've read several reports of brand new Kia's being declared lemon's and having to be bought back by the dealer. Having worked on them - I can't say that I'm surprised.

 

GD

 

Recently I drove a 2012 Legacy Sedan with the slip-o-matic tranny.

 

They ruined a great car with that thing.

 

I reminded me of a 1950 Buick Dynaflow tranny.

 

You push the gas and it sits still, push more and the engine revs, more pressure and it starts to move.

 

As it gains speed the engine is going 70 but the car is running 50.

 

All that RPM is wasting fuel.

 

In the Ft. Worth area a standard is a pain.

 

I really enjoy my 2012 Kia Optima.

 

My intent was to but a new Subie but not with that gutless tranny.

 

Jack

 

Honestly both of your points are valid.

 

The KIA/Hyundai cars can be pretty poorly built, and the Subaru CVT hasn't been a fan favorite for every driver. Its personal preference and Jack has a right to his opinion.

I personally think he could go drive the new Impreza from the dealer lot before making a final decision. The car is great and the CVT in that seems even better than the Legacy one to me.

The legacy you drove may have had a reflash done or not, a fluid change that it shouldn't have, etc. Drive another car before you throw in the towel on all Subaru's being bad. Or just find a 2010 or so Forester or Impreza with the old 4eat transmission. Great vehicle and a proven automatic transmission.

[Steves72]

 

I reminded me of a 1950 Buick Dynaflow tranny.

 

Jack

 

My father always talked with great fondness of his 1950 Buick. He loved that car.

 

Steve

[iceageg]

The new CVT is a variable pitch pulley design and is quite good. You are simply wrong about it using more fuel - it's more efficient than any other transmission type due to it's ability to always be in an optimal gear for fuel economy.

 

This is the same principle that has been used on propeller powered aircraft since at least the 30s. The engine is operated at a constant RPM and the pitch of the propeller changes to provide the resistance that maintains that setting regardless of what else changes. There are some other differences but speaking strictly about RPM, the ability to maintain the most efficient RPM for economy or power is a big step forward.

 

On an emotional note though, there are few things in the automotive world more fun than running through the gears. Boring efficiency be damned!

[wtdash]

Tangent Thread Hi-jack:

 

 

The KIA/Hyundai cars can be pretty poorly built, ....

 

Maybe 10 years ago, but the last 5 years both models are much better and if you read that 'leading consumer magazine' they are actually very competitive - a Hyundai is/was the top pick in the compact sedan category, IIRC.

 

Back to your CVT discussion.

[GeneralDisorder]

Tangent Thread Hi-jack:

 

Maybe 10 years ago, but the last 5 years both models are much better and if you read that 'leading consumer magazine' they are actually very competitive - a Hyundai is/was the top pick in the compact sedan category, IIRC.

 

I've worked on models from the last 5 years and the improvements are not that huge. They seem fine when they are new and the consumer magazines don't get to see the problems they have within the first 100k miles.

 

At the end of the day they are basically all Mitsubishi or derived from Mitsubishi technology. This immediately makes them suspect in catagory's the consumer magazines can't possible evaluate - long term reliability is very poor - electrical and electronics are lowest bidder and prone to failure.... etc. Their engineering is just not that good. Read up on the Sedona mini-van sliding doors that open while you are driving and the dealer can't fix em .

 

GD

[wtdash]

I've worked on models from the last 5 years and the improvements are not that huge.

 

GD

 

Well...I sit (in the corner) corrected. I'll trust your and Shawn's mechanics' experience.

 

 

And never heard/read about the Sedona doors...that's not cool @ all.

 

Td

[ivans imports]

Man i love my ectv on my 91 justy hold it to the floor all day every day let the bastard slip dosent break fells weird as hell but gos right to redline holds at redline and hauls rump roast 3 engine later and still same ectv they got a bad rap for pump shaft problems and brushpack problems but when they work they work good what scares me is the outback one uses the exact same size of ectv parts as justy and the berring on the load side of drum gets super loaded and will fail on justy they used a 12 ball berring to try and fix thiss with no luck i bett thiss trany will have same problem because the chain pulls sidways on drum

[Rooster2]

I rented a Nissan Ultima 2.5 with a CVT tranny that drove well. Driving felt a little strange like the motor/tranny connection was with a large rubber band. At slow speed it seemed to take a little bit of time to tighten up the rubber band for acceleration. This felt a little strange, but I got used to it. The great news is the fuel economy, which prolly approached 40 mpg. I drove from Washington, DC to Indianapolis on one tank of gas.

 

My recent drive to Charlotte, NC was in a Kia Optima. I am uncertain if the tranny was CVT, as the tranny could be held in gear through 6 forward gears, according to the gear display on the dashboard. So, don't think it was CVT. Kia/Hyundai cars have gotten a lot better, however, the rental Optima needed suspension tuning in my opinion. Seemed like there was too little shock absorber travel, or tire sidewalls too rigid, so the car rode rough like a cowboy buckboard. Also, the steering was too super quick. On the positive side, trip read out recorded 37 mpg during highway driving. Overall, the car tired me out as a driver with its steering and ride.

 

My 98 OBW would have been a better driver for the trip.

[WoodsWagon]

Read up on the Sedona mini-van sliding doors that open while you are driving and the dealer can't fix em.

 

I worked for a Honda/Kia dealership and the kiss of death was getting sent to Kia school to get certified. Their warranty work doesn't pay ************ and all Kia work is warranty work. I stayed with the Honda's as much as I could.

 

The dealer used to use Odyssey's for the customer shuttle, but they switched to a Sedona because they were cheaper. It started doing the door opening thing on the highway with customers in it. The first couple times the driver thought the customers were screwing with him, but then it happened with no one else in it when he was on a parts run.

 

I think they fixed it by adjusting the door position sensors, but man, not the right way to impress customers.

 

I'd argue Hyundai and Kia have gotten significantly better over the past decade. They are still cheap disposable cars, but the quality has come up a lot. They are also not mistubishi's, they used to use straight mitsu drivetrains up to the mid 90's, but now it's all their own design. From what I saw in the shop they're more innovative than Honda with diagnostic tools and new designs, but Honda is ridiculously stuck in their ways so that isn't saying much.

 

The Kia scan tool had a warning screen you had to go through every time before pulling codes that told you the issue was more likely to be the wiring than the sensors. Good to know they had confidence in their work.