99 HG replacement, change motor, or trade car??

[Rooster2]

My 99 OBW, just exhibited a blown head gasket. I shut off the motor when I saw the temp gauge at "H." I am confident that I caught the over heating early, and did not truly over heat the motor, as it was just beginning to push the coolant out the top of the overflow container, and yes, there were bubbles coming up the from the bottom of the over flow container. Since then, the engine has not over heated, continues to run strong, but I think it is just a matter of time for over heating to begin again.

 

What to do:

 

Option 1........Changing HGs, and adding a TB kit, at a cost of appx. $1,700? Maybe more, if heads need to be reworked? Maybe it would be good for another 50K-100K miles? The rest of the car is in good condition, inside and out, with new tires, and everything works well. My dilemma, at 196K miles on the odo, is this motor worth throwing money at??

 

Option 2.......install a 2.2 motor from a yard, and add a TB kit. Cost of motor and installation is appx. $1,700, maybe more, including TB kit. Getting a good 2.2 motor in good shape is a concern.

 

Option 3........the car runs well enough, and keeping my fingers crossed, prolly would not over heat should the dealer people test drive the car, so I could trade in this car at a dealership. Trade in value, I think would be $2,000-$2,500 according to NADA, and Kelly BB towards a newer OB wagon.

 

The engine work would be done at a shop I know and trust, that does Subaru motor work. I could bring them a TB kit from e-bay to save some money. I don't have the tools or know how to do the engine work myself.

 

Please advise.....I need to really think this through to what makes the most financial sense. Thanks for your help.

[Ricearu]

Trade it in. With that kind of mileage, they send it straight to auction anyways. I wouldn't trade it to a mom-n-pop because they would probobly try to resell it and be stuck, but I would have no problem passing it off on a stealership.

 

also, if you could get a 95 ej22 from a junk yard, be selective and find one that has a "totalling" wreck, and do the work yourself, and you are under $500. even with a ebay timing belt kit. EJ22's are hard to find around here and I paid $200 for my last one after environmental fees and blah blah blah

 

or you could be creative and grab a intake from a 95-98 ej22 and you could use any ej22 bottom end from 90-95. First gens are pretty damn easy to come by at least for me. I am contemplating picking one up that came from auction to my local PNP and has bad timing belt written on the windshield. It's a 93 wagon and that is non-interference.

Edited August 4, 2012 by Ricearu

[Rooster2]

Trade it in. With that kind of mileage, they send it straight to auction anyways. I wouldn't trade it to a mom-n-pop because they would probobly try to resell it and be stuck, but I would have no problem passing it off on a stealership.

 

also, if you could get a 95 ej22 from a junk yard, be selective and find one that has a "totalling" wreck, and do the work yourself, and you are under $500. even with a ebay timing belt kit. EJ22's are hard to find around here and I paid $200 for my last one after environmental fees and blah blah blah

 

or you could be creative and grab a intake from a 95-98 ej22 and you could use any ej22 bottom end from 90-95. First gens are pretty damn easy to come by at least for me. I am contemplating picking one up that came from auction to my local PNP and has bad timing belt written on the windshield. It's a 93 wagon and that is non-interference.

 

Yea, I know that a major stealership, not mom/pop lot, sends their high millage trade-ins to the dealer auto auction, that's where the mom/pops buy their cars. It is buyer beware at those auctions, so I don't feel bad that someone could be buying a problem. The buyer has to expect that as well, and takes their chances.

 

I am experienced on selling cars out of the yard on side of my home, but feel selling the Subie could easily prompt a return with the buyer wanting their money back.

 

At this point, I am leaning away from having work done on a 196K mile motor.

[idosubaru]

all the options you listed are good ones, just have to see which one fits your personality and budget the best.

 

without running them hot or out of oil they aren't hard to get 250-300k miles...but there's still risk, valves, seals, etc, and suspension, transmission, bearings, alternator, starter, and more to get that far too.

 

you did a wheel bearing job - a headgasket job is more parts and time but otherwise not any more technically difficult. if you loosen the lower motor mounts and jack the engine up it's not that hard to do it without an engine lift.

 

another option is to list it for $2,000 as-is and fully disclose the headgasket issue. you might get the cash in hand instead of a trade in from someone wanting something like this to fix it. my friend sold a 2003 piece of junk 300,000 mile Legacy wagon for $600 with no transmission, engine that wouldn't drive under load and puked oil out the headgaskets, exhaust, rear suspension, differential...and it was wrecked, front hood didn't work, foglights gone, fenders tore up...and the guy was going to "fix it up"..i couldn't believe it, the thing was junk, i had picked it up for my friend just for the transmission for $500 he listed it and it sold, you never know, it's worth a shot.

 

thing is if you do an engine swap you could also recoupe your costs by selling the EJ25. one that hasn't been severely overheated is worth something $400 as is or $800 repaired shoudln't be hard to get for it.

[Rooster2]

all the options you listed are good ones, just have to see which one fits your personality and budget the best.

 

without running them hot or out of oil they aren't hard to get 250-300k miles...but there's still risk, valves, seals, etc, and suspension, transmission, bearings, alternator, starter, and more to get that far too.

 

you did a wheel bearing job - a headgasket job is more parts and time but otherwise not any more technically difficult. if you loosen the lower motor mounts and jack the engine up it's not that hard to do it without an engine lift.

 

another option is to list it for $2,000 as-is and fully disclose the headgasket issue. you might get the cash in hand instead of a trade in from someone wanting something like this to fix it. my friend sold a 2003 piece of junk 300,000 mile Legacy wagon for $600 with no transmission, engine that wouldn't drive under load and puked oil out the headgaskets, exhaust, rear suspension, differential...and it was wrecked, front hood didn't work, foglights gone, fenders tore up...and the guy was going to "fix it up"..i couldn't believe it, the thing was junk, i had picked it up for my friend just for the transmission for $500 he listed it and it sold, you never know, it's worth a shot.

 

thing is if you do an engine swap you could also recoupe your costs by selling the EJ25. one that hasn't been severely overheated is worth something $400 as is or $800 repaired shoudln't be hard to get for it.

 

Grossgary...........Thanks........all good thoughts and ideas. I may have read, but didn't remember that the HGs could be changed without removing the engine from the car. It is a thought!

 

I did look for OEM HGs on line, but strangely could not find a website that would list Subaru part numbers, so I was reluctant to order without specific numbers. I figured it is just too easy to get wrong parts delivered.

 

I haven't done a thorough forum search for part numbers when replacing HGs, maybe the info is there, or someone has easy access to it, and can post on this topic.

[idosubaru]

don't get me wrong that motor is really annoying to do headgaskets in the car, not a good idea at all. but - if you jack it up like i said it gives you lots of clearance and makes it much more tolerable.

 

my prefered Subaru version for the EJ25D headgasket is:

11044AA610

 

i believe valve cover and spark plug gaskets did change for the EJ25D so make sure you order by VIN or year properly.

 

intake and exhaust manifold gaskets are all the same for 96-99 EJ25D's.

 

be careful as 99 EJ25 in foresters and impreza RS is a different motor, but you probably know most of all that stuff.

 

subarus opposed forces website is a great resource for proper part numbers.

 

ebay for the timing kits $150 - $200 for all the pulleys, tensioner, belt.

[Rooster2]

don't get me wrong that motor is really annoying to do headgaskets in the car, not a good idea at all. but - if you jack it up like i said it gives you lots of clearance and makes it much more tolerable.

 

my prefered Subaru version for the EJ25D headgasket is:

11044AA610

 

i believe valve cover and spark plug gaskets did change for the EJ25D so make sure you order by VIN or year properly.

 

intake and exhaust manifold gaskets are all the same for 96-99 EJ25D's.

 

be careful as 99 EJ25 in foresters and impreza RS is a different motor, but you probably know most of all that stuff.

 

subarus opposed forces website is a great resource for proper part numbers.

 

ebay for the timing kits $150 - $200 for all the pulleys, tensioner, belt.

 

I have changed spark plugs on my EJ25, so well aware how miserable it is to work on the sides of the motor. I gotta think replacing HGs, is not easy for the same reason. One big advantage is not having to make sure the engine bolts up to the AT properly. I have read numerous posts of ruining the AT, when installed incorrectly.

 

Thanks for taking the time to list part numbers etc. I appreciate it! Gaining knowledge helps to make the best decision on what to do. Larry (Rooster2)

[WoodsWagon]

DOHC's are a whore to do in-car. Pull it, you're not saving much time and it's easy to seat the torque converter correctly if you pay a minimum of attention.

 

The #1 reason to do DOHC headgaskets on an engine stand is the valve shims and buckets. The cams have to come out to get at the headbolts, and with the cams out the exhaust shims and buckets are free to drift out of their wells and fall on the floor.

 

I've done phase 1 SOHC headswaps in car and they're great, don't even have to pull the valvcover. No way on the DOHC's though, they interfere with my zen.

[ShawnW]

DOHC's are a whore to do in-car. Pull it, you're not saving much time and it's easy to seat the torque converter correctly if you pay a minimum of attention.

 

The #1 reason to do DOHC headgaskets on an engine stand is the valve shims and buckets. The cams have to come out to get at the headbolts, and with the cams out the exhaust shims and buckets are free to drift out of their wells and fall on the floor.

 

I've done phase 1 SOHC headswaps in car and they're great, don't even have to pull the valvcover. No way on the DOHC's though, they interfere with my zen.

 

You mean Ej22's you have done in the car. The Ej251 and 3 sohc valve cover blocks the head bolts.

[themoneypit]

i would personally 2.2 swap it. i just did a 2.2 swap on an 00 outback (phase II) in 8hrs start to finish. that included swapping intake, left cam, and crank sprockets, y-pipe, and timing belt. for a phase I, if you do a 95-98 ej22 its even more direct and less parts to change over. a 95 ej22 with egr will bolt right in and plug and play with no modifications at all. if you use 96-98, you will need the front y-pipe as they are single port exhaust. most important thing to do if you go this route, is see if your outback has an egr, if it does, make sure the 2.2 does also, and you wont have any problems. its very simple to seat the torque converter back into the trans. actually on my swap it didnt move at all, and i didnt have to re-seat it. if i did, you simply rotate it clockwise while pushing on it until it seats itself, and is almost touching the trans bell housing. subaru engines are simple to remove/reinstall. i would NEVER consider doing hgs in the car, to me its easier to remove it. from the first bolt loosened, till its on the engine stand is about 2-2.5 hours.

[WoodsWagon]

You mean Ej22's you have done in the car. The Ej251 and 3 sohc valve cover blocks the head bolts.

Show me a phase 1 sohc where the valve covers block the headbolts.

I could have said ej22, but then you would have jumped on me for not including ej18 or excluding the phase 2 ej22. So I said exactly what I said to cover the exact engines I was talking about.