Legacy 2.5 to 2.2 conversion, won't start, trans light blinking

[Ionlyhave3suubs]

I have finished installing a 97 2.2 in my 96 Legacy LSi to replace the 2.5D that went kaput while my son was driving it. I am not sure why, but the 2.2 will not start. It cranks over fine, but does not seem to be firing. In addition, the trans light blinks rapidy when trying to start it, other dash lights flicker. After trying to start, dash lights stay on kinda flickering, even with the ignition turned off and key out of ignition. I tried disconnecting the battery and re-connecting. That turned off the dash lights until trying to start, then dash lights do the same thing.

 

Summary of what was swapped:

 

2.5 engine removed complete, 2.2 installled complete. Discovered there was a difference in the flexplates during swap. Removed 2.5 flexplate from bad engine and installed on 2.2 to match 2.5 torque converter, which was re-used with original trans. All accessories from 2.5 stayed with car (a/c compressor, p/s pump, alt).

 

Y-pipe assembly from 2.2 was swapped for original 2.5 y pipe due to the 2.5 being dual port and the 2.2 being single port.

 

The 2.2 airbox was used for the swap, is connected to the 2.5 air filter box. Still has 2.5 airflow sensor (is that a potential problem)?

 

As far as I can tell, everything is plugged in that should be. The 2.2 ran before the swap. It came from a car that was a minor front end collision wreck that only did cosmetic damage to the hood, right fender and bumper skin.

 

The car that the 2.2 came from was an automatic (has egr) recipient vehicle is also automatic (with egr).

 

I know lots of forum members have done this swap, this is my first one. I have never seen the dash light symptoms like this before.

 

Anyone have any idea what is wrong?

[johnceggleston]

there are several CELs that will cause a ''flashing'' AT temp light. the one i experienced during my swap was MAF related . i had connected it during the install but i had to go back in and left it undone. others are the TPS and ... i can't remember.

 

The 2.2 airbox was used for the swap, is connected to the 2.5 air filter box. Still has 2.5 airflow sensor (is that a potential problem)?

i hve done 2 of these swaps and i always use the plastic intake plenum that came with the car, not the engine. always use everything that came with the car, just stick the ej22 in there in stead of the ej25.(this does not apply to the PS pump, alt, AC compressor or the flex plate.)

 

HTH.

Edited August 23, 2012 by johnceggleston

[Fairtax4me]

Double double check the 3 main wire harness plugs on the bellhousing. They can be difficult to get plugged in all the way.

[Ionlyhave3suubs]

I checked my connections, I could not find anything unplugged. I have diagnosed that I do not have spark. I tried swapping out to the other air intake and airflow sensor, no improvement.

 

While cranking the engine over it did fire very breifly, one time.

 

Still have the odd symptom of the blinking transmission light and the warning lights in the dash staying on after the key is turned off and removed from the ignition lock.

 

I wonder, is there a possibility that the fact that the 2.5 came to a violent end could have effected something electronic causing this problem?

[davebugs]

I ALWAYS leave the airbox and stuff in the car. I never bring it over from the donor engine.

 

Grounds?

 

Only issues I ever had was different vacuum lines for EVAP. One time swapping the lines for MAP and stuff over on the pass fender by the strut.

 

A fovorite trick is it's easy to "miss" the stiff 1' 1" hose that goes to the IAC. Car will try to start then immediately die.

 

I'd say general ground, check those 3 connections as already said.

 

Other than that I'd go back to original airbox/MAF/etc.

[Ionlyhave3suubs]

I have triple checked those three main connectors by the bellhousing on the passenger side and they are fully engaged. When I did the swap, I left the 2.2 intake and wiring harness on the engine when I installed it. Should I have done something different?

 

I have tried running it with both air intakes and both airflow sensors with the same results.

 

I know there is a ground at the starter and one that bolts to the top of the intake on the passenger side. Is there another one I am missing?

[ShawnW]

Verify the fuel line from the filter is going to the top front most connection on the intake manifold.

[Fairtax4me]

Which lights in the dash glow after the key is out? Any specific ones like Battery, oil, coolant temp?

 

I want to make sure we're not talking about back-lighting because that means we're looking at some strange coincidental failure or broken/crimped wire harness near the fuse panel under the hood.

 

Have you checked fuses? Under hood and in the dash panel. Fusible link in good shape? Checked the connections on the alternator? Both battery terminals tightly connected? Battery FULLY charged?

[bstone]

Check the igniter.

[davebugs]

I would asume the ignitor is the same - that he left it on the car body. But the connection could be loose. And they rarely fail actually.

 

I always forget if it's the crank or cam that does the spark(the other does the fuel).

 

But something isn't making sense at all. Which usually means check the simple stuff.

 

I'll be curious what the solution(s) ends up being.

[johnceggleston]

crank sensor = spark

cam sensor = fuel

[davebugs]

Thanks. As a simpleton I'll try and remember that as the sensor closest the injectors control the injectors.

[Olnick]

. . . I'll try and remember that as the sensor closest the injectors control the injectors.

 

Brilliant! You, Sir, are a mnemonic genius. Thanks.

[Fairtax4me]

Brilliant! You, Sir, are a mnemonic genius. Thanks.

 

What's pneumonia got to do with it?

 

 

 

Jk

[Ionlyhave3suubs]

The lights that stay on are battery ,brake, oil (flickers), at oil temp blinks rapidly. I discovered something else when checking on it tonight, the headlights will now turn on without the ignition key being in or turned on.

 

I am assuming the ignitor is the electronic thing that attaches to the firewall just behind the engine if so, no I did not mess with that at all.

 

Can someone answer the question of whether i should be using the 2.2 or 2.5 manifold wiring harness? currently using the 2.2 harness.

 

The fuel lines are correct.

 

I am definitely not getting spark (verified with spark tester)

 

Battery shows to be fully charged when connected to tester. when cranking the engine, starter is spinning at full speed as it should.

[Ionlyhave3suubs]

Where is the fusible link?

[Fairtax4me]

Fusible link is the one that looks like a wire in the under-hood use panel.

 

Something strange and electrical...

 

A bad diode in the alternator would allow a backfeed into the cluster through the indicator bulb lead. Disconnect the alternator plug and see if the blinking lights go away.

[Ionlyhave3suubs]

The fusible link and all fuses both under hood and in passenger compartment are intact. I tried unplugging the alternator plug and that did not make a difference.

[Fairtax4me]

I didn't really expect it to but it needed to be done to be sure.

 

Check that the B/W wire from the alt is not shorted to the W wire (12V from battery). Do that with the connector plugged in if you can.

 

Beyond that I'm thinking maybe a bad main relay(s). I'll have to look up how they work on the 97. Older cars had one main relay that was a SpDt. I think 97 had two separate SpSt relays. One of those bad would keep the instrument cluster lights and some other stuff hot w/key off.

They also control power to the ECU, which might mean it's getting no power during cranking or none at all. Or only partial power.

 

edit: No I'm thinking wrong (tired) main relay doesn't do lights. It's just powers various sensors and ECU.

Edited August 25, 2012 by Fairtax4me

[davebugs]

SHould have left the 2.2 harness onthat engine when installed.

 

You made this swap much harder than it is.

 

You simply install the complete 2.2 minus AC compressor and PS pump into the 2.5 body. May have to play with EVAP lines, need to mess with ead breather hoses.

 

Alternator is up to you - I usuallyuse the 2.5.

 

Some of those weird dash lights often hapen when alt is bad or going, but not all of them.

 

Did anything happen to the electrical system? I thought the 2.5 just failed.

[Ionlyhave3suubs]

Sorry, I am having trouble using the "quote" function, so quoted text is in italics. My responses to the quotes are in green

The following quotes (the part in italics only) are from davebugs

 

SHould have left the 2.2 harness onthat engine when installed.

 

That is exactly what I did. I was asking if that was wrong because now that there is an apparent electrical problem, I was second guessing because it does not work.

 

You made this swap much harder than it is.

 

I don't know how I made it hard, as far as I know, I did what everyone else does for this swap, but mine does not work.

 

You simply install the complete 2.2 minus AC compressor and PS pump into the 2.5 body.

 

That is exactly what I did. The only thing I think I did different than what everyone else is saying is initially I kept 2.2 air intake with the engine during the swap. That has now been changed, still not working.

 

May have to play with EVAP lines, need to mess with ead breather hoses.

 

I don't know what ead is.

 

Alternator is up to you - I usuallyuse the 2.5.

 

I am using the 2.5 alt. All belt driven accessories are from the 2.5

 

Some of those weird dash lights often hapen when alt is bad or going, but not all of them.

 

Did anything happen to the electrical system? I thought the 2.5 just failed.

As far as I know, the 2.5 failure was all that was happened My son was driving and I was not there, so I can't be for sure what else may have happened. I have not torn down the 2.5 yet to see what broke, but I have pulled the spark plugs from the passenger side of the 2.5 for curiosity sake and it is obvious something hit the electrode of the rear spark plug internally. My focus is trying get the car going again.

 

Once again, if it helps, the body is a 96 LSi originally with a 2.5d AT

Engine is 97 2.2 from a legacy l with AT

Edited August 25, 2012 by Ionlyhave3suubs
spelling error that completely changed the meaning of a word

[davebugs]

ead was head - the breather hoses from the heads that go into the box before the throttle body are slightly different.

 

From what you are saying then it really doesn't all make sense.

 

I see why you're stumped at the present time.

 

Wouldn't hurt to have that alternator checked just to get a warm fuzzy but you've got more than that going on.

 

The engine wireing harnesses are likely the same anyways. The only thing that seems to differ is how many pins for knock sensor connector. That's why the plugs for the injectors always seem so tightly pulled. I have a few engine wire harnesses if you need one let me know off of engines that ran.

 

Define in detail what you mean by "air intake" for kicks.

[Ionlyhave3suubs]

by air intake, I mean the plastic parts that attach to the filter housing beginning at the airflow sensor and ending at the throttle body

 

I am starting to lean toward the idea of a relay problem. When first connecting the battery none of the warning lights in the dash are on. After trying to start, they come on and stay on, even after turning off the key and removng it. The only way to get them to turn off is by disconnecting the battery, which seems to re-set everything.

 

I am somewhat of a novice when it comes to diagnosing electrical problems. I can sort of read a wiring diagram. I am not sure where to look for a relay that could cause my symptoms.

 

I feel i should be testing for power at the coil pack, I am not sure which wire should be 12v+ at the coil pack. I have noticed the coil packs are different between the 2.5 and 2.2

 

My next step is to try the 2.2 alternator which was working properly when removed.

[Ionlyhave3suubs]

My son is home now and I asked him to describe in detail what happened the night the car broke down.

 

He was driving down the interstate (around 55-60mph) with the cruise control on. The car acted like it came out of gear and revved high (he estimated between 5000 to 6000 rpm but wasn't sure) . He turned the cruise control off and the revving stopped. He coasted to the side of the interstate and stopped, at which point the engine had stopped too. He attempted to re-start the car and the starter wouldn't do anything.

 

The only thing he remembers doing after the breakdown other than trying to start it was roll down the (power) windows. He was sitting in the car listening to the radio with the hazzard lights on when I came to pick up the car, which I winched up onto my car trailer and towed home.

 

The 2.5 had been leaking oil like crazy before the break down, I bought the car with a bad head gasket, fixed the headgasket, didn't know about the oil separator plate and replaced the rear main seal (thought that was my oil leak source, live and learn). Needless to say after discovering this forum and doing some reading, I expected there was a high likelihood of a bottom end failure before long. Thus when I found the slightly wrecked 2.2 powered Legacy l, I scooped it up for a spare engine and parts.

 

When I tried to start the car with the damaged 2.5 on the side of the interstate it sounded like a slight clunk, as if trying to engage on a locked up engine. When removing I discovered the engine would only turn about 3/4 of a turn.

 

Possible explanations of what happened:

 

Car came out of gear and revved high on compromised bearings from overheats from previous owner causing engine failure. (no explanation for electrical problems)

 

Car struck by lightining (no storm that night, doesn't explain engine failure)

 

Car zapped by UFO with some sort of anti-subaru ray, ok that would be an explanation, however plauseability leaves something to be desired.

 

At this point I don't care about what happened unless it helps explain why my swap doesn't work

[Fairtax4me]

I'm kinda wondering if there is a short in that 2.2 harness.

An ej25d tossing a rod is no strange occurance. That happens all the time. The electrical issues afterward are coincidence, or something that happened while the work was being done.

I can't imagine that high revving just before the failure of the engine or attempting to start the car afterward would damage the electrical system. Maybe if you held the key for 5 minutes it would burn out something, but trying once or twice shouldn't affect anything.