ericcroll Posted September 1, 2012 Share Posted September 1, 2012 1997 OBW with about 200,000 --- My power steering is coming and going (within fractions of seconds) as I drive - obviously quite nerve racking. So here's a little history... I never knew that Subarus called for ATF until browsing here for a solution to my problem (call me dumb for not looking, but it's my first Sub, and I had never heard of that), and had a slow leak on a line connection at the pump (call me lazy or forgetful for not just fixing it), so I've been adding PSF every couple of months for about a year or so. Right now it's full, I haven't been able to identify a significant leak, there are no growling noises, and am wondering if it's the rack, the pump, or something else. Any ideas? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikaleda Posted September 1, 2012 Share Posted September 1, 2012 (edited) ATF and power steering fluid are interchangeable on all cars that I have worked on. I'm no expert but your leak may be what's causing your problem. Edited September 1, 2012 by mikaleda Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 Lucky Texan Posted September 1, 2012 Share Posted September 1, 2012 use a turkey baster - with a piece of hose if required - and start replacing the fluid with ATF (I use the DexIII compatible Valvoline Dex/Merc stuff - I guess it's OK) After you empty the reservoir, fill it to the low mark with ATF, idle the car - move the wheels lock to lock once or twice, then use the turkey baster to empty the reservoir again. repeat until you get 1.5 quarts or more changed out. Finish with a fill to the high mark. Might take a couple drives to work all the air out so - check fluid again a in a few days. When idling, look in the reservoir for bubbles or foam. If you see any, probably need a coupla o-rings or a new clamps or hose. do a search for power steering problems, suction air, etc. several posts on the issue. of course, the system can leak in several other places. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted September 1, 2012 Share Posted September 1, 2012 system calls for ATF, i would start by making sure the right fluid is in there. i would flush out for ATF, but don't know if that's the issue or not. if there's a leak, then fix it. Subaru power steering racks rarely fail so if there was a failure i would suspect the pump over the rack. I have power steering that is coming and going so to speak on a 99 Legacy as well, be interested to see what you figure out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikaleda Posted September 1, 2012 Share Posted September 1, 2012 (edited) Personaly i don't think your problem is your fluid I have used both ATF and power stering fluid in many cars I have even mixed the two before. I have used power stering fluid in subies before. A pump is a pump it is still doing the same thing. The two fluids you don't want to mix in a car is brake fluid and atf or psf it causes a chemical reaction which will ruin all the rubber in your brake system. ATF and power steering fluid are basically the same thing. Edited September 1, 2012 by mikaleda Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rooster2 Posted September 2, 2012 Share Posted September 2, 2012 Personaly i don't think your problem is your fluid I have used both ATF and power stering fluid in many cars I have even mixed the two before. I have used power stering fluid in subies before. A pump is a pump it is still doing the same thing. The two fluids you don't want to mix in a car is brake fluid and atf or psf it causes a chemical reaction which will ruin all the rubber in your brake system. ATF and power steering fluid are basically the same thing. Brake fluid just by itself, will degrade anything made out of rubber, that it comes into contact with. It will also damage paint. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikaleda Posted September 2, 2012 Share Posted September 2, 2012 Brake fluid just by itself, will degrade anything made out of rubber, that it comes into contact with. It will also damage paint. Yep and it also works for metal parts cleaner in A pinch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericcroll Posted September 2, 2012 Author Share Posted September 2, 2012 I'm going to change out the PSF for ATF and check O-rings tomorrow, and I'll let you all know how it went. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted September 3, 2012 Share Posted September 3, 2012 Proper fluid first, but I'm also thinking loose or wet (oil) belt. When was the last time it got changed? Not all hydraulic oils are created equal. Each has different additives that react differently with the metals used in the system. Frinstance, if you use an oil with high sulfur content, it will corrode brass and copper parts in the system. Alot of hydraulic oils are compatible these days, and thus meet many different specifications without causing harm, but that doesn't mean you should mix and match them. There are still many different systems that have to have th correct oil to function properly. In a pinch using an unspecified oil can be OK for short term, but it should be changed immediately to the proper specified oil for the system, in order to avoid damage to internal parts. It's not a chemical reaction between oil and brake fluid that causes the damage to rubber parts, ANY petroleum based oil will cause rubber brake system parts to swell and fall apart. Oil in the cooling system will cause rubber heater and radiator hoses to swell to over double their normal size, and eventually burst. Gasoline has a similar effect on rubber and brake parts, which is one reason to never use gas to clean brake calipers. A different type of rubber is used for gaskets, O rings, and hoses that come into contact with oils such as engine oil, power steering, and ATF. Generally this type of rubber is suitable for use with fuel as well depending on application. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markjw Posted September 4, 2012 Share Posted September 4, 2012 I had the same problem with my Outback. The power steering was only working intermittently. Turned out to be air in the system. The weird thing is, the problem came on without any work being done to the system. It just started happening one day. I simply followed the "bleeding" procedure detailed on the board here, and that solved the problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoupedUpSubie Posted September 4, 2012 Share Posted September 4, 2012 Once you have the fluid changed you can buy a additive that glows in UV light. If you do it at night with only the UV light around for a source I am sure it would be much easier to locate the leak. Also depending on the location of the leak you could be sucking air into the system which will make the pump do very odd things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivans imports Posted September 4, 2012 Share Posted September 4, 2012 pullys glazed and belt sliping ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericcroll Posted September 4, 2012 Author Share Posted September 4, 2012 Well, I changed out the PSF for ATF, and it seemed to get marginally better, but certainly not gone. I am starting to think (as somebody else mentioned) that I have a leak that is drawing air into the system. I'm guessing that since it is sucking instead of blowing, that I won't be able to use the glow in the dark stuff. Somebody else mentioned a bleeding procedure that may or may not work under those circumstances. Is there a way to pressurize the whole system to see where it may be sucking air in? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 Lucky Texan Posted September 4, 2012 Share Posted September 4, 2012 (edited) Well, I changed out the PSF for ATF, and it seemed to get marginally better, but certainly not gone. I am starting to think (as somebody else mentioned) that I have a leak that is drawing air into the system. I'm guessing that since it is sucking instead of blowing, that I won't be able to use the glow in the dark stuff. Somebody else mentioned a bleeding procedure that may or may not work under those circumstances. Is there a way to pressurize the whole system to see where it may be sucking air in? I'm no expert on every failure mode possible, but I clearly saw bubbles in the reservoir while idling before I changed the o-ring on top of the pump in our 03 H6. The only places air can be sucked in would be someplace in the pump itself, the hose attachment stuff on top of the pump, the suction/supply w'ever hose, or the hose attachment at the reservoir tank. Also, not sure exactly what a '97 ps system is like. There may be an o-ring under the tank if it's on top of your pump. Every thing else is under pressure and fluid would have to be pushed out long before air could get back in. Edited September 4, 2012 by 1 Lucky Texan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericcroll Posted September 11, 2012 Author Share Posted September 11, 2012 Well, I changed the pump and filled with ATF, and the problem remains. Has anybody had a rack failure that they can describe for me, or do any of you have any other ideas? I am still looking for a leak, but I now have such a mess of residual fluid under the hood from my elaborate attempt at draining the old pump using a hose connected to the return line that popped off when I turned the wheel, that I'm having a hard time identifying anything. So far though, I have found nothing obvious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 Lucky Texan Posted September 11, 2012 Share Posted September 11, 2012 (edited) maybe check the u-joint going down to the rack? like number 10 in this drawing (yours might be different); dunno Edited September 11, 2012 by 1 Lucky Texan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericcroll Posted September 11, 2012 Author Share Posted September 11, 2012 Can anybody give me a time and/or difficulty estimate on a rack change? I've managed to get myself through both an EJ22 swap and a tranny change, so I'm not a novice, but I've never done a rack in my life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivans imports Posted September 11, 2012 Share Posted September 11, 2012 takes about 2 hours with hoist and is a pain to keep collum alined i a'm having thiss problem in my 80 wagon uses a 89 gl 10 rack was very stiff ps changed rack no diff think is a fillter or valve inline with pump gets sticky havent changed pump yet but is next step have seen the vanes in pump get worn and drop preshure Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivans imports Posted September 11, 2012 Share Posted September 11, 2012 also check the harmonic balancer has not seperated have seen the outer part spining on the center part and not turning accserorys properly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericcroll Posted September 11, 2012 Author Share Posted September 11, 2012 also check the harmonic balancer has not seperated have seen the outer part spining on the center part and not turning accserorys properly I'm pretty sure this would be causing a charging issue, and I have not had that. The pulley is also not at all wet and there is no noise, so I believe that the belt is not the problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericcroll Posted September 11, 2012 Author Share Posted September 11, 2012 takes about 2 hours with hoist and is a pain to keep collum alined i a'm having thiss problem in my 80 wagon uses a 89 gl 10 rack was very stiff ps changed rack no diff think is a fillter or valve inline with pump gets sticky havent changed pump yet but is next step have seen the vanes in pump get worn and drop preshure You're saying that you changed the rack for nothing? Hmmm... I'm not so sure that I want to do that. I guess I'll put off the rack change while I keep looking for a leak as my arms and shoulders grow to Hulk-like proportions. lol All kidding aside, it is getting a bit frustrating and as the weather is getting colder, it is more and more of a problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markjw Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 Have you made any effort to purge the system of air that may be trapped in the rack? I raise the front of the vehicle so both front wheels are off the ground, and with the engine running, turn steering wheel lock to lock while an assistant adds fluid to the reservoir. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericcroll Posted September 12, 2012 Author Share Posted September 12, 2012 Have you made any effort to purge the system of air that may be trapped in the rack? I raise the front of the vehicle so both front wheels are off the ground, and with the engine running, turn steering wheel lock to lock while an assistant adds fluid to the reservoir. I will try this and let u know how it goes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivans imports Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 fixed mine yesterday the belt was slipping on the ribs of the ps pully but was tight the ribs of the belt were worn enuff that was not grabing when under load changed belt and problem was fixed was not sliping on alt just ps was weird but new belt fixed it instantly i put a wrench on ps pully and was able to turn it and engine did not turn with it after i changed my rack and pump fixed it with a 25 $ belt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericcroll Posted September 12, 2012 Author Share Posted September 12, 2012 fixed mine yesterday the belt was slipping on the ribs of the ps pully but was tight the ribs of the belt were worn enuff that was not grabing when under load changed belt and problem was fixed was not sliping on alt just ps was weird but new belt fixed it instantly i put a wrench on ps pully and was able to turn it and engine did not turn with it after i changed my rack and pump fixed it with a 25 $ belt It was not squealing at all? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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