thebr0wn0ne Posted September 23, 2012 Share Posted September 23, 2012 so i have an 87 gl hatch and my brakes are being tempermental. There was a leak in the Hillholder but that has been fixed. Now i am clueless as to why even though i have bled the brakes 3 times, the brakes stilldont grab till the pedal hits the floor. Any ideas? please and thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
opus Posted September 23, 2012 Share Posted September 23, 2012 You still havent got all the air out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scoobiedubie Posted September 23, 2012 Share Posted September 23, 2012 Your action of replacing the hill holder pulled some nice fat air bubble into all of your lines. You won't likely be able to push those bubbles out the bottom. You might try pumping on the brakes to force air bubbles out into the reservoir and keep the reservoir filled. It took me a lot of pumping and when I finally got it to a point that I felt that I could stop the vehicle but they were still slightly soft, I left it and let the remaining air bubbles work themselves out the top. The air bubbles did eventually work themselves out the top. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mykeys Toy Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 nope.. hopefully the line isnt cracked but my crappy flare wrenches only allowed them to be tightened so far withou worry of stripping the nut on one line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilesFox Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 you might have to bleed the MC if the reservoir went dry. you will have to remove the brake lines and plug the hole with your finger to get it going. Try depressing the clutch when bleeding the rear brakes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robm Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 I wonder if the air is caught in the hill holder? Maybe try bleeding with the nose in the air, and press the clutch as Miles suggests. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tizzle Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 bleed the master cylinder, bleed the calipers in proper order, tap on the calipers to free up any trapped bubbles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tatarusbrute Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 What everyone else said. Also, If you wait like 15 seconds between pushes when you are bleeding brakes, it decreases the turbulence in the line, and allows the bubbles to reform into bigger ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davebugs Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 Motive PRESSURE bleeder? Very handy when air gets in the lines. Better than all the little pulses from pumping which can cause bubbles. Much more effective than "sucking" devices where the air expands much more than the fluid being sucked. Buy/borrow/rent one - and the correct adapter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coxy Posted September 29, 2012 Share Posted September 29, 2012 Old trick I use a washed out 600ML Coke bottle and fill it with brake fluid when upended into the master cylinder it will not all run out but will keep the fluid level topped up as it only flows to keep the level the same. Then fit a drain line and open the bleed nipple and gravity will do the rest with the difference in height allowing a pressure difference,This is very usefull for when you think about it with an older cehicle the travel of the master cylinder piston assembly may be say 20mm and will leave a slight wear lip at that point,When you suddenly start to pump the brakes to bleed them and the seals on the master cylinder piston travel past the normal point of travel you can damage the seals and they will not bleed the air out. This is why mechanics use either gravity bleeding or vacuum or pressure bleeding systems rather than the old pump the brakes method. It is very hard trying to explain to a customer that the brakes that worked OK when they dropped the car off now need replacing because you tried to bleed the brakes to flush old dirty fluid and killed the original seals by pushing them past a wear ridge inside the master cylinder inpumping the Brakes,They just don't understand and think you are trying to shaft them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted September 29, 2012 Share Posted September 29, 2012 This is why mechanics use either gravity bleeding or vacuum or pressure bleeding systems rather than the old pump the brakes method. It is very hard trying to explain to a customer that the brakes that worked OK when they dropped the car off now need replacing because you tried to bleed the brakes to flush old dirty fluid and killed the original seals by pushing them past a wear ridge inside the master cylinder inpumping the Brakes,They just don't understand and think you are trying to shaft them. What he said, thats my vote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mykeys Toy Posted September 30, 2012 Share Posted September 30, 2012 Actually this is supposed to be the boys project with a little help. He found that one of the lines is leaking from the master and causing it to only build so far and go to crud again. He has yet to update his post or look for the line it has been 5 days so here is the update. A big thanks to all who tried to help. I do have a gravity bleeder but was afraid to use it for fear of making a huge mess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted September 30, 2012 Share Posted September 30, 2012 Suggestion, the car is old enough anyway, think about replacing the MC. Also i gravity bled both my justy and outback. I didnt need anything really aside from a hose. I just opened up the bleeder and let our evil overlord Physics take over. Went faster then I thought it would, and on both cars i Replaced calipers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mykeys Toy Posted September 30, 2012 Share Posted September 30, 2012 That was first followed by by-passing the HH then when we still couldn't get pressure had to start looking for leaks. Which turns out to be the line closest to the front of the car which is maybe 8" long...The frickin easy one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coxy Posted September 30, 2012 Share Posted September 30, 2012 Good you solved the problem, remember the gravity bleeding method so you avoid the seal issue in future just in case,while it is obviously preferable to fit a new Master cylinder people are not always able to budget for one when it fails like that. Best not to be caught out if possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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