Since we have not had a good religon discussion lately. lets talk religon - Motor Oil

[1-3-2-4]

Looks like i may by a case of shell oil then, unless when i go to NJ wheelin this weekend I see something else on sale. Hard to beat 3.00 a qt around here.

 

 

I'm curious about this rotella oil now.. but speaking of this oil I gotta replace my passenger side valve cover gasket, I forgot all about it.. I thought I could of saved it after I had to take the cover off to get the part of the plug wire that broke off over the head of the spark plug, I guess it's a one shot deal no matter how new it was..

 

I leak about a quart every 2 weeks, and due for an oil change now got the filter just need the oil now.

[Fairtax4me]

I also don't like "fuel efficient" oil. 0w oil scares me. I see that some drag is lost, but my old fall back is that the 1989 honda crx hf got 49mpg highway. I don't buy that manufacturers have to run light weight oil to get 35-40 mpg.

 

Not much difference between 5 and 0 weight oil except that 0 flows easier when cold. I ran 0w-20 in my Lincoln for 3 years and never heard so much as a tap from the engine, cold or hot. I wouldn't say it made any difference in fuel economy.

 

If the "fuel saver" oils do anything, they warm up faster, which can lower emissions by some minuscule amount. Every little bit helps? Or just good marketing?

 

Honda used to make a carbureted engine that got close to 100mpg and passed California emissions tests back in the late 60's -early 70's? with no catalytic converters.

Your 89 crx weighed what, 1500 lbs? Had 75 hp? The modern equivalent has (due to consumer demand) an engine making nearly twice as much power and has to drag around another 1000 lbs of car, not including the modern overweight driver.

Luckily for us the power robbing emissions systems of the late 70's to early 00's (EGR, restrictive catalytic converters, air pumps) are now being phased out in favor of variable valve timing and better fuel atomization (direct injection) allowing for lower emissions at the head, before even reaching the smaller, more efficient catalysts.

Edited October 18, 2012 by Fairtax4me

[afterbang]

I've had some jugs of conventional Valvoline that I needed to blow through but now I'm switching to rotella t6 15w-40 in my 98 legacy outback with about 180k on it. GD just helped me in a purchase of a very nice 2003 Legacy sedan w/ 87k that I'm also planning on running that same oil in. I was weary about the heavier weight being an issue on cold start ups but from what I've read it's a non-issue and I let my cars idle for a bit before taking off anyways. It's cheap and it seems like even the tuner guys have been happy with the wear protection in their WRXs and STis.

 

By the way, I recommend any one that plans to buy a Subaru from a dealer bring Rick just for the entertainment factor. It was absolutely hilarious to watch him school and call BS on the sales people and service department at wentworth Subaru in Portland. The lies were trying to throw at us were just astonishing. They replaced the headgaskets because of the usual leaking and while they changed the timing belt, they didnt touch any other components, even though the waterpump had signs of a light leak. They claimed that waterpumps are good for over 200k and cost 1000 dollars to replace and the idler pulleys don't ever need to be touched. There definitely is a reason that TB jobs are under 300 dollars there.

 

As you could probably imagine, Rick had an opinion about car maintenance that wasn't in line with their recommendations and he sure let that be known. It all worked out in the end as the amount we paid for the car had he thoughts accounted for. They couldn't get us out of that place fast enough :-p

[brus brother]

i do not recommend recycled motor oil for you car, but using fresh recycled / re-manufactured oil is better than not changing the oil you have now and running it another 3k - 5k.

just my opinion.

Vallvoline NexGen 50% recycled oil has the starburst symbol on the front and is rated SN. They boast a 150,000 mile engine guarantee on the label (which is barely off the lot for a Subaru).

I have been buying this stuff at Advanced Auto when they have full rebate offers and have enough oil now to open my own Spiffy Lube.

If the engine ever fails, I will simply affix their label guarantee to the hood and keep on driving.

Worse comes to worse, it's a lifetime of salad dressing.

[efseiler]

nipper,

 

you are evil for starting this thread. the anti-christ even.

 

just my opinion.

 

Evil? That actually may be your investment portfolio affected by volatile market indicators!

 

 

If you want to discover what's _really evil_ watch '2001: A Space Odyssey'

[ivans imports]

What oil when its cold well my justy turns a bitt slow in - 25-35 but starts just fine and gets 15-40 all year round. Its the only car i whould drive in winter as it far surpasses the handleing of any other subaru i own or have seen in the snow and ice. All my other subarus start fine with heavy oil 15-40 all year round. I a'm more woried about breakdown of oil from heat than i a'm about damage from cold start

[1-3-2-4]

Picked up some Rotella T6 today

[nipper]

What oil when its cold well my justy turns a bitt slow in - 25-35 but starts just fine and gets 15-40 all year round. Its the only car i whould drive in winter as it far surpasses the handleing of any other subaru i own or have seen in the snow and ice. All my other subarus start fine with heavy oil 15-40 all year round. I a'm more woried about breakdown of oil from heat than i a'm about damage from cold start

 

As soon as there is salt on the road my Justy lives in the driveway till the spring thaw. I added an external oil cooler (with T stat) and external filter to add 1.5 qts to the capacity to avoid oil over heating. The oil pump is just too fragile to take a chance.

[ivans imports]

my justy i put on a turbo legacy intergrated oil cooler and a sunbird turbo and header i love it in the snow. But even with the oil cooler i only get about 2500 kms before oil gets cooked turbo has no water cooling. So oil gets hot and needs to be changed more often

[Loyale 2.7 Turbo]

... Using fresh clean oil is the best insurance that your engine will run a good long time.

 

Well, yes but I'll change the word "Clean" with "Proper" oil.

 

Have you seen this Thread about Motor Oils? : ~► Here.

 

I've opened for service many engines, and some motor oils does more Gum & Varnish buildup than others; even being the same weight, number and APi class.

 

I've used MOTUL Motor oils for many years and that oil keep cleaner the internals somehow; I don't know how much will cost a gallon of Motul oil in the USA but here that brand has strong market precense (You can see that they even are Sponsors of many Local Motor Shows ~► Here) and isn't very expensive.

 

Kind Regards.

[AWDfreak]

Well, yes but I'll change the word "Clean" with "Proper" oil.

 

Have you seen this Thread about Motor Oils? : ~► Here.

 

I've opened for service many engines, and some motor oils does more Gum & Varnish buildup than others; even being the same weight, number and APi class.

 

I've used MOTUL Motor oils for many years and that oil keep cleaner the internals somehow; I don't know how much will cost a gallon of Motul oil in the USA but here that brand has strong market precense (You can see that they even are Sponsors of many Local Motor Shows ~► Here) and isn't very expensive.

 

Kind Regards.

 

Motul is a top-tier Group IV motor oil brand, they offer very high-quality motor oils. So I know very well what you're talking about.

 

They're the same brand that Subaru's factory race teams use, such as Subaru Rally Team USA, Subaru World Rally Team (when they still competed), Subaru's Japanese race team in Super GT, etc.

 

However, they are CRAZY EXPENSIVE and what I consider overkill for those with a non-turbo Subaru.

 

 

It's usually the turbocharged Subarus that get very picky with motor oil, pretty sure they run best with synthetic. Also, the turbo motors should have shorter oil-change intervals since they have higher stresses (such as possible higher operating temperatures) than the non-turbo motors.

 

Non-turbo Subaru motors aren't as picky, so any good brand with proper certification and viscosity should be good. Non-turbo motors in general don't need to have short oil-change intervals, unless you'll be doing "severe duty" things.

[bulwnkl]

I am just wondering if Penzoil is Penzoil or just rebranded Shell Oil (not a bad thing)

 

SOPUS (Shell Oil Products US) has different development tracks and formulations for Shell vs. Pennzoil. I do not say they avoid technology sharing, but the brands are allowed flexibility in driving their product(s) differently, or were as recently as a year or two ago. I seriously doubt that's changed. They're many times similar, but not the same. That they are similar may have as much or more to do with the fact that price drives formulations VERY hard in the Wal-Mart shelf-space oil segment.

[99ImprezaOSport]

I've always used valvoline. Love it. Just my opinion though.

 

Valvoline... I've had timing belts snap & head gaskets blow (coolant issue) but I have never had any engine problems from using Valvoline. 25 years and counting...

 

I run 5000-7200 miles between oil changes. Just removed my engine at 270K and adjusted the valves, new timing belt kit, clutch, CLUTCH FORK (reason for all this preventive maintenance... ), Alternator (Go figure that one out???), and misc odds and ends... BUT under those valve covers were two heads that were nice, clean, and with a metal finish. No GUNK. I wish I would have taken some pics to show had I read this article previously...

 

I second the use of always using Valvoline...

[Zekeuyasha]

I too, hail from the order of SuperTech (Wally-World brand) That hasn't messed me up one bit. It's dirt cheap. Maybe I don't understan motor oil like I should, but I don't see a difference with more expensive oils.

I have a SPFI EA82 under my hood, only problem is the lack of a radiator at the moment.... :sad:

[nipper]

I just worry about using a rather bland oil on a rather delicate engine (Justy). But it looks like I will go the shell route.

[johnceggleston]

I just worry about using a rather bland oil on a rather delicate engine (Justy). But it looks like I will go the shell route.

 

what!! i can't believe you are still here?

 

i thought you were just 'trolling'', start a fire and move on.

 

 

good luck with the justy.

[sario]

I'm in the 'any oil is fine as long as you change it group.' My outback did its first 200,000 miles on cheap dino oil. Somewhere Around 230,000 I switched to synthetic because I could get mobile 1 at the same price. Oh and I change it every 5 to 6 k.

[Frank B]

I use Chevron Delo 15w40, diesel engine oil in my 96 Legacy(all year), 03 Silhouette van, mowers, skid loader, my Harley, and even as bar and chain oil in my saws. Because it's crazy cheap for me at work.

 

Just change it when it gets dirty. With the better oils, you can go longer inbetween changes. In the big trucks that the Delo 15w40 is made for, that large, hard working, diesel engine goes 14,000 miles or more between changes. The filters are better, but still, that's 14,000 miles!

If you can swing it, take a sample from your old oil the next time you change it, and send it away to be analyzed. You may be surprised at how much life is left in it.

[Quidam]

For EA 82's, I keep going back to 20W50 and it's what's in my 3AT Loyale. Reason being, the tranny shifts at 5000 rpm when you wind it out and it shifting automatically, and at that point I read 50 psi oil pressure. Right where it needs to be under load. 10 psi per 1000 rpm.

 

Doug

[hohieu]

Ok, I'll join in the fun.

 

oil is oil and any oil is better than no oil have seen subarus run anykind of oil and last forever run it low one time and done

 

I basically agree with this. On a related point, I would say that for most people, the only real benefit of 3K oil change intervals is that someone looks at your engine and checks fluid levels more frequently; otherwise, it's a waste of money and resources. On most good running engines, you should go at least 5K miles. Some known sludgers have flawed PCV systems and/or other engine design flaws.

 

 

 

Valvoline... I've had timing belts snap & head gaskets blow (coolant issue) but I have never had any engine problems from using Valvoline. 25 years and counting...

I run 5000-7200 miles between oil changes. Just removed my engine at 270K and adjusted the valves, new timing belt kit, clutch, CLUTCH FORK (reason for all this preventive maintenance... ), Alternator (Go figure that one out???), and misc odds and ends... BUT under those valve covers were two heads that were nice, clean, and with a metal finish. No GUNK. I wish I would have taken some pics to show had I read this article previously...

 

I second the use of always using Valvoline... [/Quote]

 

I'm not brand loyal, but I do run longer intervals (average of 12K/1year) on my '99 Forester using various synthetics, only because they're usually blended with a better additive package and are less chemically reactive w/ combustion blowby. Consumption has been the same no matter what I've used: 1 qt./6.5K miles. Here are a couple of photos I took during a valve adjustment at 137K miles: http://s759.photobucket.com/albums/xx234/Subieho/Forester%20Valve%20Adjustment/?action=view¤t=ValveHead.jpg#!oZZ1QQcurrentZZhttp%3A%2F%2Fs759.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fxx234%2FSubieho%2FForester%2520Valve%2520Adjustment%2F%3Faction%3Dview%26current%3DValveHead.jpg

 

An SAE paper found that oil temperature was most important in determining engine wear rates during warmup to operating temperature. The paper concluded that there was no appreciable difference in engine wear between oils of different viscosity or synthetic vs. conventional oils. In other words, an engine will wear the same (more or less) during the period of warm up to operating temperature no matter what you use, all other things being equal. Heat activates the anti-wear additives, which is a contributing factor. So it seams that the benefit of lower viscosity and low temp. flow of synthetics is less wear and tear on the starting system and better fuel economy during warmup as the engine doesn't have to work as hard to churn the stuff around.

 

Unless you actually need the resistance to thermal oxidation (read "turbo") or the lower pour point of synthetics at startup during winter, the only benefit of synthetic is that it gives you longer, not better, protection because it is not as chemically reactive to combustion byproducts and usually has a more robust additive package than conventional oils.

Edited November 3, 2012 by hohieu
clarity

[sario]

...An SAE paper found that oil temperature was most important in determining engine wear during warmup to operating temperature. The paper concluded that ....

 

 

That sounds like an interesting read. Is the paper available online?

[hohieu]

I've not read the paper and do not have a subscription to download the paper. If someone has the pdf., I'd love to have a look as well.

 

As it stands, I've only gleaned the info. from others referencing this SAE Technical Paper on other forums. I think some of the stuff on the following forum is a bit over the top, but there's still some good information to be had:

 

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1105992&page=1

Edited October 30, 2012 by hohieu

[spazomatic]

In my older flat tappet cars, I like valvoline...but will run whatever brand i happen to run in to. Also, i use a zinc addiditve at every change. Usually STP. I used to change it every 3000 miles, but now when it gets to that point i just check it often to see how it looks and smells. When it gets funky, i change it.

I do have an old hot rodded bronco that i use Brad Penn oil exclusively. It has lots of zinc in it, and that particular motor has a flat tappet cam with lots of spring pressure.

 

On cars ive owned since new, i use a full synthetic and change every 7-8000 miles. Any brand really, but usually mobil1, again with STP. I have a chevy with a 4.3 that is nearing 300k miles...oil pressures still great, valve to guide clearances are still within factory spec, and compression is as good as ever. Mobil 1 is all its ever had in it.

Wix filters on everything!

[SUBARU3]

How come "synthetic" is the only allowed oil in aviation engines. (Jet, or piston)? I fly for American and I see cases of Mobil one on the tarmac!

 

I have used it in all my Subys and Mitsubishis without a lick of trouble. I also add zinc with every oil change to keep approx 5000ppm. Mobil one 15/50 has some zinc in it too.

 

http://www.buylucasoil.com/viewitem.asp?itemid=10063

 

http://www.amazon.com/Lucas-Oil-10063-Break-In-Additive/dp/B001DKN8ZU

[Quidam]

How come "synthetic" is the only allowed oil in aviation engines. (Jet, or piston)? I fly for American and I see cases of Mobil one on the tarmac!

 

I have used it in all my Subys and Mitsubishis without a lick of trouble. I also add zinc with every oil change to keep approx 5000ppm. Mobil one 15/50 has some zinc in it too.

 

Jet aircraft are lubed exclusively with synthetic because of their resistance to extremely high temps. It's been said that the modern jet aircraft simply wouldn't exist without it.

 

A good synthetic can withstand 500*F for many hours and temps of 800-900*F for brief periods.

 

One test of the best mineral based oil an author could find was that it flashed after 20-30 minutes at 320*F. This was years ago, and some the first reading I did on synthetic.

 

It was developed for highly stressed operating conditions. IMO, any turbo sube requires synthetic. Or more frequent mineral oil changes.

 

Doug