psychocandy Posted November 24, 2012 Share Posted November 24, 2012 (edited) ugh. what's the next step? 1998 Outback Sport (i.e. Impreza) with 2.2. i'm about to head over to O'Reilly's, but they don't rent OBD code readers and the cheapest one they carry is $120. I am noticing a ticking sound as well not like an exhaust leak (already dealt with one of those), kinda sounds like a loud watch. I took it in to a shop to have the code read. There was a cylinder 2 misfire code, I didn't ask my mechanic for more specifics, he works on a lot of Subies. I knew the plugs & wires were due for replacement anyway, so I just went ahead with that. Is there a way to test the coil pack? But wouldn't a coil pack problem affect 2 cylinders? not just 1? Edited November 24, 2012 by psychocandy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porcupine73 Posted November 24, 2012 Share Posted November 24, 2012 Can you let us know the model and year? Usually the parts stores will read the codes for free, you just need to know the actual code # and not the description, like P0302. I'm guessing someone read the codes already to know it was cyl #2 misfire? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted November 24, 2012 Share Posted November 24, 2012 Try using a product from Chevron that is called Techron. It helps clean the fuel system and the cylinders. That may fix the trouble. There are a number of things that can cause the trouble, including the engine sensors. There are a lot of places you can order a code reader from for a lot less money. The slightly more expensive readers can do more than just read the error codes and can make finding problems easier. If you're into that you might consider the better grade models. Personally, I like the Equus models. Ebay is a good place to purchase units at for a decent price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porcupine73 Posted November 24, 2012 Share Posted November 24, 2012 Hm well that would be solid lifters. How many miles are on? It's possible if the valve clearance was never checked/adjusted and enough miles are on maybe a valve is not closing all the way. I forget I think it's the exhaust valves that usually end up not closing all the way in this case. If that's the cause if it's driven like that enough the valve will become scorched and require replacement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psychocandy Posted November 24, 2012 Author Share Posted November 24, 2012 I'm also curious about some people claiming that sloppy time belt jobs will cause the crank bolt to not be torqued down tight enough and the timing will walk. I did my own TB, I used a torque wrench, so I doubt that's the problem. But what's the best way to check? Can I check this without taking the center timing belt cover off? don't I have to take the crank bolt out to do that? I suppose that'll guarantee putting the crank bolt back on at the appropriate tightness, but also seems kinda redundant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porcupine73 Posted November 24, 2012 Share Posted November 24, 2012 The crank pulley bolt loosening won't let the timing jump, at least I can't see how, the crank sprocket is keyed to the crankshaft. What did you torque that bolt to? The old spec was something that was kind of low, though it did want you to oil the threads and make sure it turned a certain amount. I think usually 130+ft-lb will get it guten tite. 80 ft-lb is not enough. So, how many miles are on it, and, has the valve clearance ever been checked and adjusted? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porcupine73 Posted November 24, 2012 Share Posted November 24, 2012 Ah now I'm seeing from an older thread that this vehicle had an engine swap from an 'older Legacy'. So if it was 1996 or earlier it would have HLA's, and if those go bad or lose prime, they can result in a ticking sound. Not sure if that would cause a misfire though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psychocandy Posted November 24, 2012 Author Share Posted November 24, 2012 (edited) <derp> Crank pulley's right in front of my face, not under the center TB cover. It's fine, no wobble. Pulled the plug wires off the coil pack while the car was running. STRONG spark (saw a video of some guy doing it with his bare hands, that's not smart, YOWZA!) at 2-3-4, no spark at 1 Swapped the wires at the coil pack for 1 and 3, same result. Is this like to mean a bad coil pack? Odd that there was supposedly a cylinder 2 misfire and now I'm just getting straight up no spark at cylinder 1. I was gonna pull the plugs and look at them, but I'm staring at an obvious problem here. I'm still under the impression that a bad coil would cause problems at two cylinders. What do you more experienced Subies tinkerers have to say about my no spark from only the cylinder 1 conductor? I also unplugged the MAF sensor while it was running. Engine died like it's supposed to. Engine has ~150k on it, new TB, water pump, pulleys. I have no idea when the valves were last checked TBH. Edited November 25, 2012 by psychocandy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psychocandy Posted November 25, 2012 Author Share Posted November 25, 2012 (edited) here's the clicking sound and the lack of spark from the coil pack to cylinder 1. take my word that there is strong spark to 2-3-4 cylinders. also, pulled plug, looked pretty clean aside from being damp with gas. is there a way to embed? i'm on another forum that uses Vbulletin, we can do: video ID , but that didn't seem to work here. Edited November 25, 2012 by psychocandy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porcupine73 Posted November 25, 2012 Share Posted November 25, 2012 Hm well I wonder if it's possible if cracking/carbon tracing on the coil pack would allow one cylinder to fire while the opposite cylinder does not. I think there was a TSB out about carbon tracing on certain coil packs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psychocandy Posted November 25, 2012 Author Share Posted November 25, 2012 (edited) is that something that would develop after time? 'cuz this coil pack came with the engine, and it's only just started doing this. also, I have a friend with an OBD reader, will it tell me anything other than "cyl 1 misfire," which I already know, just need to diagnose. it seems to me that no matter what, there IS a problem with the coil pack first. if the Subie uses a "wasted spark," then cyl 1 should be getting a spark from the coil pack whenever cyl 3 is, correct? and cyl 3 is definitely firing. Edited November 25, 2012 by psychocandy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porcupine73 Posted November 25, 2012 Share Posted November 25, 2012 Yes it is something that can develop as the pack ages definitely. It isn't just Subaru's that can have that issue. If I could find that TSB that might be of some help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psychocandy Posted November 25, 2012 Author Share Posted November 25, 2012 odd that it would pop up right after changing plugs & wires, but I've worked on enough cars to know that coincidences always happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porcupine73 Posted November 25, 2012 Share Posted November 25, 2012 Hm, ok, I thought you replaced the plugs and wires because you were having this code ... are you saying you got this code only after replacing the plugs and wires? the other detail is Subaru's of that era can be picky about plugs and wires. They seem to like genuine wires and NGK plugs, though some people manage to use others ok. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psychocandy Posted November 25, 2012 Author Share Posted November 25, 2012 (edited) no, here's the timeline: 1. got the CEL, went to shop and got the code from the tech (cyl 2 misfire), tech also cleared code (btw, Subies are popular around here, this guy works on a lot and says: has to be NGK plugs, but he's seen very little variance between wire sets and actually doesn't like NGK because "the ends fall off."). 2. ordered wires and bought NGK plugs. 3. drove it a bit (couple days) before r/r plugs & wires because it seemed intermittent, CEL did not come back on. 4. Amazon sent wrong wires, so I was gonna run out to O'Reilly's to pick up wires last night, but it started really bogging down and CEL went back on. 5. took MC to get "closest to OEM" wires from O'Reilly's. 5. did plugs & wires this morning, did not solve problem. 6. did some research on internet, went back out and tested for spark. 7. no spark from coil pack to cyl 1 leads. plenty of spark to cyl 2-3-4. so, if the CEL went on originally because of cyl 2, it was pretty intermittent and did not run particularly rough (barely noticeable, actually). btw, cyl 2 was the dirtiest of all the plugs removed. however, after having the code cleared, car ran as before. but then, it seems that one of the cyl just had complete misfire as of yesterday. I'm assuming this is cyl 1 and has something to do with the lack of spark from the coil pack. have not had a chance to scan for a code since originally having a tech pull & clear code. Edited November 25, 2012 by psychocandy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted November 25, 2012 Share Posted November 25, 2012 The coil could have cracked or could be carbon tracked. Clicking could be the spark jumping straight to ground. Could be evident at night but not guaranteed to actually see the spark where it jumps. (Could be an internal jump) I'd replace the coil. The old 2.2s are not particularly picky about plugs or wires. I just use regular copper NGKs and have car-quest wires. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psychocandy Posted November 25, 2012 Author Share Posted November 25, 2012 (edited) That seems to be the most logical answer. I have a friend with the same engine, but she's at work 'til 1am. I really want to take the car over to her work and swap the coil pack jsut to see if that solves the problem. Even if they have the coil pack at Kragen/Napa/O'Reilly's, I'd kinda rather get it from a stealership or off the internet. But that means the car's outta commission 'til that arrives. What's conventional wisdom with these? Prices range from a scary $25 to almost $200. I don't want to cheap out, but I'm not the kind of person that believes the $200 part is automatically better. Edited November 25, 2012 by psychocandy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted November 25, 2012 Share Posted November 25, 2012 These don't fail all that often. Junkyard part should be fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porcupine73 Posted November 25, 2012 Share Posted November 25, 2012 Right junkyard part should work. If by chance you can get it in the dark and let it idle, and watch all around the coil pack to see if you can see the arcing. If you can see it, I have temporarily 'fixed' them on other makes by simply putting electrical tape around the area where it is arcing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psychocandy Posted November 25, 2012 Author Share Posted November 25, 2012 damn, you got my hopes up. i let it idle in the dark. no arcing i could see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porcupine73 Posted November 25, 2012 Share Posted November 25, 2012 Could be internal as someone mentioned above. It seems like the coil would be the next logical thing to test since you did plugs and wires already, and since you were getting a spark on #2 but not #1 the ignitor is most likely fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted November 25, 2012 Share Posted November 25, 2012 (edited) I've seen a bad connection at a coil pack tower cause the coil to be damaged internally and not fire on a single cylinder. This was on a '99 Impreza. I changed the plugs and wires (wire was burned on the coil pack end and might as well do $2 plugs while in there) and installed a used coil pack and it's been fine ever since. One thing you can do to check this if you have an inline spark checker (cheap) put it on the #2 plug tower and use that tower to fire the #1 cylinder (remember - wasted spark fires both cylinders anyway). If the misfire moves from #1 to #2 then you have found the culprit. GD Edited November 25, 2012 by GeneralDisorder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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