noob2soob22 Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 (edited) O.k. so I'm having some charging issues, and I thought that it may be associated with the warning lights that like to come on and stay on (brake fluid level, stop lamp, and A.T oil temp, along with the voltage warning light). So I began playing with the fuses and pulled the charge fuse...walla! the warning lights all went out and I could hear an improvement in the engine. But this fuse is for my alternator and I certainly can't keep the fuse out. But even eith the fuse in, I'm having to charge my battery every other day. I just had my alternaor tested and its pushing 14v. Battery holds a solid 12v. I'm lost, other than the possibility of shorted out wire or crossed wire associated with these warning lights. ANY SUGGESTIONS!! AM2SOOB22 P.S. the warning lights are all falsely on, when they come on it's all or none! and when they go off, my voltage gauge reads right. And on another note, I just found out my better half had left my hydrogen generator running while she was at work for 6 hours, could this have damaged my alternator? Edited November 27, 2012 by noob2soob22 clarification Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naru Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 They did not test it very well. You have a bad alternator diode.Hydrogen didn`t do it. Confirm the bad diode by measuring AC voltage at the alternator output w/headlights.blower fan etc. on,engine running @ 2500. Should be under 0.5 volts AC. Yours will be higher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noob2soob22 Posted November 27, 2012 Author Share Posted November 27, 2012 would this cause all the warning lights? i failed to mention that the parking brake warning light also lights up. what i dont understand is that if i hit a good bump, all the warnings go away and my voltage reads around 14-12. How positive are you that it's the dioide? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noob2soob22 Posted November 27, 2012 Author Share Posted November 27, 2012 Is the diode relaceable? Or am I in the market for a new alternator? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naru Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 would this cause all the warning lights? i failed to mention that the parking brake warning light also lights up. what i dont understand is that if i hit a good bump, all the warnings go away and my voltage reads around 14-12. How positive are you that it's the dioide? Yes. 99.5% Check for AC w/a voltmeter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naru Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 Is the diode relaceable? Or am I in the market for a new alternator? Yes,but,not really practical. New alt. for the win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noob2soob22 Posted November 27, 2012 Author Share Posted November 27, 2012 roger that. I'm going to check the voltage on my alternator output. THANKS A MILLION! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 Check the AC voltage at the battery posts while the engine is running around 1,500 RPM. A good alternator should show less than .1 volt of AC voltage. You stated that the trouble cleared when you hit a bump so something isn't right and it appears to be due to a connection problem rather than something like a diode failing. The trouble could very well be inside the alternator. The reason that the warning lights turn on is because they are tied to the alternator field lead for testing and when the alternator has trouble the other warning lights can turn on also, depending on the fault condition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noob2soob22 Posted November 27, 2012 Author Share Posted November 27, 2012 ok. so I pulled my alt. and one of three diodes was fried! the other two, not far behind. SO this diode failure is causing my warning lamps to light up. correct? But on the other hand what causes diode failure? These warning lights I mentioned have ALWAYS "flickered" and it's never just one or two, it's all or none and the brightness seems to flicker. So now i'm considering a possible short? iF A SHORT IS THE CULPRIT, i'M COMPLETEY LOS. i'VE LOOKED AT BRUMBY'S 83-84 UTILITY VEHICLE WIRING DIAGRAM AND FOUND NO HELP. iS THERE A PARTICULAR WIRE GOUPING THAT'S AFFILIATED WITH TTHESE WARNING LIGHTS? aNY SUGGESTIONS? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noob2soob22 Posted November 27, 2012 Author Share Posted November 27, 2012 ON SECOND THOUGHT. iF THE LEAD FROM THE ALTERNATOR TO THE BATERY IS LOOSE (BAD CONECTION) THEN THESE WARNING LIGHTS WOULD COME ON? bECUASE THEY FLICKEERED ON ME SINCE I'VE HAD THE VEHICLE THEN THE CONECTION HAS BEEN QUESTIONABLE THE WHOLE TIME. tHIS GOOD CONNECTION/ BAD CONNECTION OVER AND OVER CAUSED MY DIODES TO FRY? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naru Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 (edited) ok. so I pulled my alt. and one of three diodes was fried! the other two, not far behind. SO this diode failure is causing my warning lamps to light up. correct? But on the other hand what causes diode failure? 1-Yes 2-Too much current. Usually from aftermarket accessories,but,a short somewhere could do the same. An intermittent output connection could certainly cause diode damaging current/voltage spikes. Stock alternator diodes seem to be on the weak side. I would repair the alt. and poor connection.Very likely all that is necessary. Edited November 27, 2012 by naru Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noob2soob22 Posted November 28, 2012 Author Share Posted November 28, 2012 I sure hope that replacement of the alt, along with making sure it has a good connection to the battery solves this. I recently installed a hydrogen gerator, with a 35 amp in line fuse and 35 amp relay. This wouldn't have caused it would it? Also like i said with the warning lights, they have always flickered (all of them at once) Should i investigat this? if so where would I start? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noob2soob22 Posted November 28, 2012 Author Share Posted November 28, 2012 1-Yes2-Too much current. Usually from aftermarket accessories,but,a short somewhere could do the same. An intermittent output connection could certainly cause diode damaging current/voltage spikes. Stock alternator diodes seem to be on the weak side. I would repair the alt. and poor connection.Very likely all that is necessary. too much current? could you explain, I have a hydrogen generator installed as mentioned above, but i have a fuse and relay to prevent from overdrwing. I personally think that the warning lights could be shorting out, but where would I look? It's not just one warning light it's several Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naru Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 (edited) Since the hydrogen generator part of the circuit is protected by a 35 amp fuse,it must have a rather large current draw. The diodes can only handle so much. Fuse only limits current to the circuits it feeds,not the total current draw on the alt. Hydrogen generator probably IS responsible.I`d ditch that. I expect the flickering to subside w/the repairs mentioned. Edited November 28, 2012 by naru Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 I sure hope that replacement of the alt, along with making sure it has a good connection to the battery solves this. I recently installed a hydrogen gerator, with a 35 amp in line fuse and 35 amp relay.This wouldn't have caused it would it? Also like i said with the warning lights, they have always flickered (all of them at once) Should i investigat this? if so where would I start? The device you mention will make the alternator work harder. Even if the device draws 20 amps, that is a significant load on the alternator, plus the other things it has to supply power to. As far as the warning lights go you either didn't read my previous post which explained why they are doing what they are doing or you don't believe it. When you replace the alternator you will see what I mean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noob2soob22 Posted November 28, 2012 Author Share Posted November 28, 2012 The device you mention will make the alternator work harder. Even if the device draws 20 amps, that is a significant load on the alternator, plus the other things it has to supply power to. As far as the warning lights go you either didn't read my previous post which explained why they are doing what they are doing or you don't believe it. When you replace the alternator you will see what I mean. I understand why all the warning lights are illuminated, what concerns me is that they have always flcikered on me, which leads me to 1) there's a short or 2) the lead from alternator to my battery has had a bad connection. I just want to make sure I don't blow the diodes on my new alt. I greatly appreciate everyones input!! thanks guys! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 The light flicker is due to the bad diodes inside the alternator. That causes excessive ripple voltage which makes the lights flicker. The best thing you can do for your new alternator is make sure the battery is in good shape along with the post connections. The two work together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivans imports Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 bad alt is it over charging ? 14.20 max 12.60 min Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noob2soob22 Posted November 28, 2012 Author Share Posted November 28, 2012 (edited) Possible. the flickering has hapened since day one, better half left generator running 6 hours, stoped charging, checked alt and found fried diodes. Edited November 28, 2012 by noob2soob22 correction Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noob2soob22 Posted November 30, 2012 Author Share Posted November 30, 2012 thanks to everyone who gave some input. New alternator is in, warning lights gone, and no longer flickering! thanks a million guys! now I need a way to safely run my hho generator. thinbk a pulse width modulator would do it? if so whats the max amp draw i should use? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferox Posted November 30, 2012 Share Posted November 30, 2012 Battery holds a solid 12v. That's low. 12.0V is ok temporarily, but it should really be 12.4-12.6. If the battery won't hold higher than 12.0v, then you are putting some strain on the alternator. I would also recommend an alt upgrade if your are installing hungry accessory systems. The stock alt is weak even in top condition. And on another note, I just found out my better half had left my hydrogen generator running while she was at work for 6 hours, could this have damaged my alternator?If you are going to mod your car with a hydrogen generator you need to wire it so that it runs only when the engine is running. If it runs your battery down, then your alt will have to work hard to charge it up, since it is designed to maintain a charge rather than as a battery charger, per se. More importantly, leaving the possibility of the H generator running while the car is not, could cause damage to your better half when she/he starts the car after 6 hours of hydrogen and oxygen production (assuming it's an electrolytic generator). You should remove that system and bench-design fail-safes into it before installing it back in the vehicle and letting your better half drive it on public roadways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noob2soob22 Posted December 1, 2012 Author Share Posted December 1, 2012 That's low. 12.0V is ok temporarily, but it should really be 12.4-12.6. If the battery won't hold higher than 12.0v, then you are putting some strain on the alternator. I would also recommend an alt upgrade if your are installing hungry accessory systems. The stock alt is weak even in top condition. If you are going to mod your car with a hydrogen generator you need to wire it so that it runs only when the engine is running. If it runs your battery down, then your alt will have to work hard to charge it up, since it is designed to maintain a charge rather than as a battery charger, per se. More importantly, leaving the possibility of the H generator running while the car is not, could cause damage to your better half when she/he starts the car after 6 hours of hydrogen and oxygen production (assuming it's an electrolytic generator). You should remove that system and bench-design fail-safes into it before installing it back in the vehicle and letting your better half drive it on public roadways. Note taken. Last night, I ran the 35amp relay switch to the accesory hot, now she doesnt have to worry about turning it on or off, but I also left the LED toggle, just in case. My new alternator is working great (no warning lights) my volt gauge reads kinda low, but i used a sunpro voltage gauge and it reads around 14 with the car running , alittle over twelve with just the key on, so my dash gauge is inaccurate...no surprise though, my gas gauge is a 1/4 tank off too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noob2soob22 Posted December 1, 2012 Author Share Posted December 1, 2012 That's low. 12.0V is ok temporarily, but it should really be 12.4-12.6. If the battery won't hold higher than 12.0v, then you are putting some strain on the alternator. I would also recommend an alt upgrade if your are installing hungry accessory systems. The stock alt is weak even in top condition. If you are going to mod your car with a hydrogen generator you need to wire it so that it runs only when the engine is running. If it runs your battery down, then your alt will have to work hard to charge it up, since it is designed to maintain a charge rather than as a battery charger, per se. More importantly, leaving the possibility of the H generator running while the car is not, could cause damage to your better half when she/he starts the car after 6 hours of hydrogen and oxygen production (assuming it's an electrolytic generator). You should remove that system and bench-design fail-safes into it before installing it back in the vehicle and letting your better half drive it on public roadways. What would you reccomend ? the alt i jsut installed is a 60 amp. My hydro-gen never draws more than 35 (unsure of the true draw). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferox Posted December 2, 2012 Share Posted December 2, 2012 (edited) What would you reccomend ? the alt i jsut installed is a 60 amp. My hydro-gen never draws more than 35 (unsure of the true draw). Most people go with the Nissan upgrade. It's the cleanest and easiest for most people. http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/showthread.php?t=100559&highlight=%26quot%3Balternator+upgrade%26quot%3B I went with the 100 amp GM alt upgrade way back when and have been very happy with it, but it requires modifying the alt bracket to make it a bolt-in. I used a small-case one as opposed to the large-case units described in the links. It's still a lunker, but it works great. If for some reason you want to go with the GM over the Nissan, let me know and I can send you some photos. http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/showthread.php?t=24227&highlight=%26quot%3Balternator+upgrade%26quot%3B http://random.removed.us/altswap.html Edited December 2, 2012 by ferox Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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