Hatched Posted January 13, 2013 Author Share Posted January 13, 2013 The reason for the 2.2l is dependability and ease of conversion. I didn't know that A 3.3l would fit in A 1985 hatchback. I am A firm beleiver of "no replacment for displacment". I have three, 2.2l and have no money invested in them. Any money I spend on the one I use is all i'll have invested, so I figure make the best from what i've got. Then hopefully I will have A SOHC 2.5L to play with some day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bratman18 Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 After all, there is no replacement for displacement. cheers Except for forced induction! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monstaru Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 Except for forced induction! The guy said reliable. I don't include Turbos in the same sentence with reliable.Because of the greed for power... cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bratman18 Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 The guy said reliable.I don't include Turbos in the same sentence with reliable.Because of the greed for power... cheers Lol it certainly can be a toss up. All depends on if you go too far, and what you have for a set up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SubiBratz Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 I was planning to go turbo in the brat, even bought a 91 legacy turbo car for the swap lol. Then I thought do I really want all the extra headaches\work without reliability? I understand if you do it right you'll get decent motor but there is always something that needs attention. ?. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatched Posted January 14, 2013 Author Share Posted January 14, 2013 I am trying to build the most power to A naturally aspirated 2.2l. This engine will be in my daily driver. Living in the Appalacian mountains, its going to be off-road A lot. If I can't get the power I need, I will definatly go forced induction. That would be at another level of engine that would need to be built to complement to turbo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatched Posted January 14, 2013 Author Share Posted January 14, 2013 I was planning to go turbo in the brat, even bought a 91 legacy turbo car for the swap lol. Then I thought do I really want all the extra headaches\work without reliability? I understand if you do it right you'll get decent motor but there is always something that needs attention. ?. I hear ya, I bet that Brat will move on down the road. It seems as though you get my "reasoning". If A bone stock 2.2l is going to satisfy my needs, then that is great. Regardless of miliage I'm still going to freshen the motor up and add some changes that will only make it better. The kind of things that the factory should have done but didn't. I want to apply 23yrs of technology to the build. Even if its simply better new parts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShawnW Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 The 1990 Engine block itself is fine. Just take the manifold off and put the 95-98 EJ22 manifold without an EGR valve and the harness from that car. Tackle the wiring or send it to one of the guys on here (like me) that do harnesses. I think Numbchux does them still and there's probably a couple others. I also like the 1994 wiring if you want to stick with OBD1 that is the best one. I also prefer an Impreza harness over a Legacy usually. Usually simpler and all of these seem to have the main engine plugs and the ECM on the passenger side of the the car and engine compartment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatched Posted January 15, 2013 Author Share Posted January 15, 2013 Hey that sounds like information to put in my book. I'm copying suggestions off using my printer and putting the suggestions in A binder for quick reference that way it will be easier. There is towing business about 5 miles from here that has A 1994 impreza that they drug-in that had been abandoned and the state had them to remove it. They had no keys so they don't know if it runs. Anyway, they said I could have it for $300, and it has A 2.2l/ automatic. Is the wiring the only thing of benefit or could I use other things? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WoodsWagon Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 If a ej22 runs ok I wouldn't rebuild it. I rebuilt my first EJ22 and due to a broken hood latch on a cross country trip during the break in period I ran it way low on oil and it burned oil from then on out. That then resulted in burned exhaust valves. I replaced it with an EJ22 out of a 92 Postal legacy. It was free, and had been in service doing rural mail delivery for 15 years. They replaced it because the broken flex plate sounded like rod knock. I beat the holy hell out of that engine, overheated it until it lost power a few times snow wheeling, and used it as my daily commuter 40 miles each way. It ran like a top and didn't burn any oil. EJ22's either work or they don't. It usually depends on if the previous owner kept oil in them or not. And if they don't work, another junkyard engine is way cheaper and easier than rebuilding because most of the EJ22's in junkyards are in fine shape. I can buy 2 EJ22's pulled and palleted with a 30 day warranty for the price of parts to do a refresh on my own. Rebuilding them just doesn't make sense. If you want power, put an EJ25 block under the EJ22 heads so the 2.5l can fit in the brat engine bay. Put some delta cams in and use an OBDII harness with the EJ25 computer. Just put an EJ motor in it, any motor, and drive it. Then decide if you want to put together a higher powered one. You may be impressed enough at the performance that you don't need to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TajMan Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 well said Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatched Posted January 16, 2013 Author Share Posted January 16, 2013 If a ej22 runs ok I wouldn't rebuild it. I rebuilt my first EJ22 and due to a broken hood latch on a cross country trip during the break in period I ran it way low on oil and it burned oil from then on out. That then resulted in burned exhaust valves. I replaced it with an EJ22 out of a 92 Postal legacy. It was free, and had been in service doing rural mail delivery for 15 years. They replaced it because the broken flex plate sounded like rod knock. I beat the holy hell out of that engine, overheated it until it lost power a few times snow wheeling, and used it as my daily commuter 40 miles each way. It ran like a top and didn't burn any oil. EJ22's either work or they don't. It usually depends on if the previous owner kept oil in them or not. And if they don't work, another junkyard engine is way cheaper and easier than rebuilding because most of the EJ22's in junkyards are in fine shape. I can buy 2 EJ22's pulled and palleted with a 30 day warranty for the price of parts to do a refresh on my own. Rebuilding them just doesn't make sense. If you want power, put an EJ25 block under the EJ22 heads so the 2.5l can fit in the brat engine bay. Put some delta cams in and use an OBDII harness with the EJ25 computer. Just put an EJ motor in it, any motor, and drive it. Then decide if you want to put together a higher powered one. You may be impressed enough at the performance that you don't need to. I have three 2.2l motors, maybe I should just keep putting them in as I blow one up. I would probably run out of car , before motors. I have A friend that has A 2.5l block that he has been trying to sell me. Which 2.5l are best to start with? I was told 2000 model because they were S.O.H.C. motors, but if using 2.2l heads why would it matter what block was used ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TajMan Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 I was told once the shortblocks are pretty much the same, between the DOHC 2.5 and the later SOHC 2.5, I found once though, that they use different oil pumps at least! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
86BRATMAN Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 There are some pretty signifcant differences between the ej25d and ej251 engines, and it runs deeper than just sohc v. dohc. The heads will still swap between the two. The ej25d pistons crest out of the block my a very little bit, but its enough to make you have to use the thicker oem head gaskets so the piston and valve don't connect. The rod(I think its the rods) bearings are ~4mm smaller than standard ej22 and ej251 engines making them more prone to failure when the engine is overheated. The ej251 engine will be more expensive because its newer, it also has flat top pistons resulting in much higher compression with the ej22 heads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatched Posted January 17, 2013 Author Share Posted January 17, 2013 (edited) Stop capitalizing the letter a in the middle of your sentences! wHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT? cOULD YOU NOTREAD IT? Are you an english major? I can't understand half of the posts wordage on here but tou don't here me complaing. I just like subarus and other people that do also. I am just an old Virginia mountain man. I graduated high school and thats as far as I went. If my posts affend everyone on here, then I appoligize to you good folks. I am here for subaru fun, knowledge, and advice. I am not here 4 GRAMMER 101, i APOLOGIZE 2 THe GooD FOLKS AGAIN 4 MY RUDE CAPTULIZASHUN IN DA MIDDLE Of My SANTENZING ? Edited January 17, 2013 by Hatched I forgot to ad something Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WoodsWagon Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 I have three 2.2l motors, maybe I should just keep putting them in as I blow one up. I would probably run out of car , before motors. You will have to try very hard to blow up a good used EJ22. I took a perfectly good EJ22 and rebuilt it, which lead to it running low on oil during its break in period and ruining the engine. If I had just put the engine in as is, it would have been fine. The rebuild was money down the drain. The phase 2 SOHC heads are as bulky as the DOHC heads, the phase 1 SOHC 90-98 heads are compact enough to fit in an EA81 body without having to notch the framerails. 90-94 legacy turbo's used these same heads, so you could fit one in fairly easily. Or go with a 2.5l block for a high compression N/A motor with the 2.2l heads. You could also run low compression pistons in a phase 2 EJ25 block and turbo that for even more power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatched Posted January 17, 2013 Author Share Posted January 17, 2013 You will have to try very hard to blow up a good used EJ22. I took a perfectly good EJ22 and rebuilt it, which lead to it running low on oil during its break in period and ruining the engine. If I had just put the engine in as is, it would have been fine. The rebuild was money down the drain. The phase 2 SOHC heads are as bulky as the DOHC heads, the phase 1 SOHC 90-98 heads are compact enough to fit in an EA81 body without having to notch the framerails. 90-94 legacy turbo's used these same heads, so you could fit one in fairly easily. Or go with a 2.5l block for a high compression N/A motor with the 2.2l heads. You could also run low compression pistons in a phase 2 EJ25 block and turbo that for even more power. I hear ya ! What do you think about the frankenmotor? I have been trying to find the original post that has the build specifications of that motor. All the links I come up with, is people trying to make it better. All the other links are talking about how great it is. Just from the bits and peices I have gathered it sounds really strong. I want to read about its cut and dry specs: which block to use, heads, intake, wiring harness, and most of all how much horsepower and torque it is putting out. Has anyone got one in A EA81 body? I will definately make A copy of your suggestions for my reference book that I'm making before I start my build. Your information is very helpful. I didn't know that I would have to notch the frame rails to install A DOHC motor. Things like that are why I made this thread. Its great getting information from people who have been there and done that. We learn from our mistakes and I don't want to make any with my build. My project is A 1985 hatchback that i'm lifting 4". I don't want it to be powerless with the addition of so much more rolling mass. Thanks again! If you have anymore suggestions just shoot them at me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subruise Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 there is a member here who has a franken motor in his rallyx brat. google dude... or dare i say it, look up the original post on nasioc "high compression franken motor" iirc ej 25d block, phase 1 ej22e heads, roller rockers, solid lifters. its late, im stoned, gimme a break if im wrong. use hgs that go w the block you use...or use the cometic kit designed for this build (yup, they do that now). intake... i dont remember but if you have an egr, use an intake that accommodates that. ive heard tell that impreza harnesses are simpler to strip than legacy ones. do yourself a favor and pay someone to do it, plug and play is worth every red cent. hth, take lots of pics, we wanna see Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatched Posted January 17, 2013 Author Share Posted January 17, 2013 there is a member here who has a franken motor in his rallyx brat. google dude... or dare i say it, look up the original post on nasioc "high compression franken motor" iirc ej 25d block, phase 1 ej22e heads, roller rockers, solid lifters. its late, im stoned, gimme a break if im wrong. use hgs that go w the block you use...or use the cometic kit designed for this build (yup, they do that now). intake... i dont remember but if you have an egr, use an intake that accommodates that. ive heard tell that impreza harnesses are simpler to strip than legacy ones. do yourself a favor and pay someone to do it, plug and play is worth every red cent. hth, take lots of pics, we wanna see Yea man, I am looking for that brat. Gotta see it. Even if I don't build A frankenmotor its going to have A strong 2.2l. I will take tons of pictures of the whole build and post them as I go. Thanks for your brains! Let me know if you find A link to that brat.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subruise Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 brains? no, im merely regurgitating what i spend hours each day absorbing instead of progressing in more tangible ways. but youre welcome just the same Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatched Posted January 18, 2013 Author Share Posted January 18, 2013 brains? no, im merely regurgitating what i spend hours each day absorbing instead of progressing in more tangible ways. but youre welcome just the same Man you sure got some cool words in that regurgitation ! :cool: But seriously folks, I did find a lot of specifications about the frankenmotor. I found them on this website in the performance tech forums/NA fuel injection engine tech. Now I wonder if a EA81 bodied car could handle the motor with it having the stock drivetrain? The motor being the only exception, obviously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SubiBratz Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 I believe I am the one with the brat. Very few people that done that to a gen 1 body/car. Read up its pretty good. http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2338561 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
renob123 Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 Subruise is referring to me. There was one Brat in Canada or NE Washington that had one before mine did, though. Don't bother with any power beyond an EJ22 with Delta cams until you've worked out suspension, brakes, and drivetrain. Jacob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatched Posted January 19, 2013 Author Share Posted January 19, 2013 Subruise is referring to me. There was one Brat in Canada or NE Washington that had one before mine did, though. Don't bother with any power beyond an EJ22 with Delta cams until you've worked out suspension, brakes, and drivetrain. Jacob I'm going to stay with a 2.2l in my gen-2 hatch. But that is a super cool brat! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilesFox Posted January 19, 2013 Share Posted January 19, 2013 In regards to frankenmotors, i just put one together. IF you can find a 2.5 as easily as a 2.2 to use the bottom end on, consider it an option. The one i put together with dude had sat in the back of a car and had rust on the cylinders Shall i say that it runs reliably and does not smoke! this was in a 95 using the stock intake and heads and ecu. witht this engien, there is the option for delta cams and headers as it already has dual ports and rocker valvetrain. So what i am saying is that a frankenmotor si seasy to do, and don't worry about cylinders or the bottom end. Do be certain if any donor ej25 had been overheated or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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