briankk Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 My old '90 Loyale tossed a belt, I've got a new kit coming by FedX. Trying to get at the old belts, several of the small bolts (10mm bolt heads) that screw the front of the plastic belt shield to the rear plastic belt shield, are turning the nuts embedded in the rear shield, and so can't be unscrewed. What to do about this? TIA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skishop69 Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 Easiest thing to do so you don't break things is take a hair dryer to the back side of the belt housing to heat it up. Take a screw driver and pry off to one side. This will pop the captured nuts through without breaking the housing. To install, get longer bolts with washers on both sides and nylock nuts. Most guys here leave the covers off and haven't seemed to have any issues. I always put them back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 i break them off, they're not needed nor worth my time to mess with. if you want to be careful...hair dryer sounds interesting...you can strike the very top of the tab that encapsulates the lock nut with a screw driver and hammer and just crack that tab...hopefully, and still have a timing belt cover to reinstall. you don't need all the bolts in place to reinstall, there's a ton. reinstall them with zip ties so you can easily remove it next time. or don't install it at all, i run naked on my XT6 and Legacy. makes for quick timing belt changes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loyale 2.7 Turbo Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 ... they're not needed nor worth my time to mess with. ... I Agree. Also I run my "BumbleBeast" with the timin' belts Naked and I use it as Daily driver on Weekdays (60% usage) and as Off-Roader in Weekends (40% Usage) since Long time ago, and I Never had any Timing Belts issues, so far. Also, I Agree that lettin' them off, will lead to a much Faster (and Easier) Timing Belt job. Kind Regards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilesFox Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 If you care to keep them just zip tie them if the bolts break. If you are not bothering with the front crank seal, just break out the middle one and leave the crank pulley on, as sometimes it can be a compromise if it is not tightened correctly, and it's much easier. The water pump and oil pump will thank you later when they ask to be replaced, and you don't have to remove all those covers again, which sometimes can be more work than the wp or timing belt itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scoobiedubie Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 It is easier to get a used front cover out of the wrecking yard, than the back cover. Try and not damage the back cover. You might try a wide screw driver or wood chisel, to pry the covers apart, once all good bolts have been removed. When reinstalling good bolts, using HDPE plastic washers or rubber washers, will keep the bolts from seizing next time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briankk Posted January 16, 2013 Author Share Posted January 16, 2013 If you care to keep them just zip tie them if the bolts break. If you are not bothering with the front crank seal, just break out the middle one and leave the crank pulley on, as sometimes it can be a compromise if it is not tightened correctly, and it's much easier. The water pump and oil pump will thank you later when they ask to be replaced, and you don't have to remove all those covers again, which sometimes can be more work than the wp or timing belt itself. I'm replacing everything in the belt kit, and the water pump, just for grins. This engine has always had excellent oil pressure, I don't reckon to fool with the pump unless something is obviously wrong with it.. I've always been told tha leaving the covers off invites rocks and things to bugger up the belts. Not so? Whole thing would be a lot simpler with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numbchux Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 I've always been told tha leaving the covers off invites rocks and things to bugger up the belts. Not so? Whole thing would be a lot simpler with them. Not really. There isn't much debris flying around in that part of the engine bay. Running without covers probably shortens the life of things a little bit, but it makes replacing them a breeze. The last EA82-powered vehicle I owned blew a belt on my way to sell it (idler seized....). Once I got the parts (I had a belt....but no pulley), it only took me 15 minutes to get the car back on the road. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickNakorn Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 I had the same problem on my 1991 EA82 (recently rebuilt) and I used a 'Dremel' mini-cut-off-disk to cut through the head of the bolt. I found that the heat generated by the process softened the plastic so the whole bolt and captive nut could be pulled out - but it made a bit of a mess of the plastic. Still, it all went back together ok with some new nuts and bolts. Ragged hole top left requited a 'penny' washer but other holes not too bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivans imports Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 up here we run no covers on most loyales but all are trained on roadside belt changing and carry spare belts with them my 60 year old mom can change here loyale timing belt in 20 min on the side of the road with a canadian tire tool kitt. but add covers and 2 hours of greif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickNakorn Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 Once the nuts and bolts are greased up, they only take a few minutes to remove again and I think the covers help reduce wear and damage to the belts, idlers and tensioners - especially on very muddy or gravelly roads or through brambles and brush. But I'm always a bit fussy about things being 'right' even when it makes not so much difference! :-\ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loyale 2.7 Turbo Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 ... my 60 year old mom can change here loyale timing belt in 20 min on the side of the road ... Now that's Epic! ... ... I've somehow "Teached" many Honduran Mechanics on How to do the EA82 Timin' Belts Service, now think that they're "Trained" in Mechanic Schools... I Learned how to do that, Here in USMB, Long time ago... also to let the covers off. Kind Regards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loyale 2.7 Turbo Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 ... I think the covers help reduce wear and damage to the belts, idlers and tensioners - especially on very muddy or gravelly roads or through brambles and brush. ... Yep, it could be, but with that Timing Belts' placement is not easy for debris to get there. Long time ago I serviced the Timin' Belts on a 1991 EA82 Sedan (Not Mine) and the covers were holding (collecting) inside a good amount of oils (Engine Oil + Power Steering Oil) mixed with dust = Muddy debris inside... I asked to the owner if I could leave them off, she told me: "Do whatever you want" She only needed her car to be good to go... I believe that under certain circumstances, the "Naked" Belts could somehow manage to clean themselves, keeping oil off, not only due to the Spin movement, but also the warm air blowin' to them from the Radiators' fans. Kind Regards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robm Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 I leave the centre cover on. It isn't too hard to get off (1/2 hour or less) and it covers the belts at the lowest point on the engine, where I suspect it is most likely to pick up sticks and such, if they make it past the sump guard. However, my experience is that the covers do seem to increase belt longevity. With covers, I had no troubles with belts breaking before their service life (55,000 miles). Without them, I find I am lucky to get 45,000 miles out of the belts. So far, the score is two belts changed at 55,000 each with covers, and two belts broken at less than 55,000 miles without covers. Like Ivan says, pack spare belts if you run coverless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickNakorn Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 I used to work a lot in woodland mending fences, putting up gates and restoring green lanes and I often had debris suck between the rad and the belt covers - that type of terrain very tough on radiators, CV boots too. It all depends on the type of work the car has to do. My inclination is to use the covers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickNakorn Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 Lots of mud, twigs and sticks and stones when going off the tracks in woods like this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subruise Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 (edited) I had the same problem on my 1991 EA82 (recently rebuilt) and I used a 'Dremel' mini-cut-off-disk to cut through the head of the bolt. I found that the heat generated by the process softened the plastic so the whole bolt and captive nut could be pulled out - but it made a bit of a mess of the plastic. Still, it all went back together ok with some new nuts and bolts. Ragged hole top left requited a 'penny' washer but other holes not too bad. the hole in your (usdm)driver side cover in the pic will make your belt fail. stuff can get in, but not out.......ask me how i know Edited January 17, 2013 by Subruise Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loyale 2.7 Turbo Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 the hole in your driver side cover in the pic will make your belt fail. stuff can get in, but not out.......ask me how i know Remember that NickNakorn, who posted that photo, does live in England; So that hole is in his Passenger's Side Cover. Kind Regards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subruise Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 thank you, i had either neglected to notice that...or thought it was opposite day lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivans imports Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 me moms loyale has 475000kms on it cant get her out of the dam thing 10 years of driving in the crapy roads with no covers and only had 3 belts fail all from age not from contamination. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickNakorn Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 Hi Subruise, a good point... how do you know :-) I'll fix the hole at some point! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subruise Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 well, since you asked.... a hole similar to that one resulted in me learning how to become hopelessly addicted to soobs..even though that was the third one ive had(1st ea82 tho) cheers, and gaff tape:headbang: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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