1993 Subaru Loyale, Just bought it, have a lot of questions and need lots of answers.

[Sandrion]

Just recently bought this Subi Loyale sedan off CL for the whopping price of $675, has some little issues but overall, it was a steal!

 

I had a couple questions, as I am new to Subi's as I have driven a 1988 Chevy s10 until now, now I drive both it and the Subi. I am pretty proficient at working on my own vehicle, so any advice is helpful to me.

 

First off, the dash backlights for the gauges sometimes go out, I can smack the dash and they come back on, usually it is the left side lights. Just the backlights for the gauges.    What could it be causing this?

 

Second, my fuel pump makes a funny noise, like it is surging or something to that affect, I assume this is not good. What could this be?

 

Third, sometimes when I go around curves, or give it gas, it wants to bog out on me, it acts like my S10 does when it is running out of gas, (just dies until it picks up a little more), except I usually keep the tank at least halfway full. Any particular reason this happens? Could be the pump? Or a sensor of some sort?  I have the 1.8l single point injection.

 

Fourth, I have the 3 speed auto model. To run 55-65 I have to push the engine harder than I do in my truck, I know that the engine is designed towards this, but will it hurt it in any way if I drive it for say, 1 hour at sustained 65 mph?

 

Fifth, the tach and speedo sometimes stick a little, the tach more so than the speedo. Can I fix this? What causes it.?

 

Sixth, my windows... They have a hard time rolling up and down, and have what looks to be roller scratches on them.. Do they have rollers? If so, are they accessible for cleaning? I fear they may have grit in them, which will continue to eat away at my windows..

 

 

Any answer or help is greatly appreciated, this car has only 70,000 miles on it, and really is in great shape, I will be asking more questions as I go along, but this is a good start. Thanks in advance for all you guys' help!!

 

 

Thanks, Sandrion.

[NorthWet]

First off, welcome to USMB!

 

It would be useful to know what year and body style you have.  (Edit: OOPS! Just reread Title. :endEdit)

 

I don't have a good suggestion on the dash lighting, unless something is a little squirrley in the light dimmer control.

 

Does your fuel pump makes its noise rhythmically, as in noise ofr 2-3 seconds, quiet for 2-3 seconds?  Or is it a little more random?

 

Is the "going around curves" issue exclusively right handers, especially sweeping right hand curves?

 

As long as your engine is in reasonably good shape, it will run at 80-85mph all day without issues.  It is a very short stroke engine, so the piston isn't moving nearly as far or as fast as other engines running much lower rpms.  3000-3500rpm is normal cruise for your engine.

 

With the 3-speed auto, the best thing you can do for the tranny is keep the fluid clean and cool.  Weird automatic shifting will occur as the fluid degrades and gets dirty.

 

Do you have manual or electric windows?  Regardless, the glass is tensioned with rollers and/or felt pads that get grit in them.

They are accessible by popping off the trim outside and the door panel inside.

Edited March 9, 2013 by NorthWet

[Sandrion]

Ok

 

It is a 1993 Sedan 1.8l AUT3, fwd. 

 

I have messed with the light dimmer control, dont think that is it.

 

It is a bit more random, sort of surges at times and then doesn't, then it might again, then it might not. Quite a noisy little devil.

 

Going around curves is right and left hand. They include making an abrupt right out of my driveway, and also an abrupt left out of work. Sweeping curves are also in the equation.

 

I have electric everything, windows, mirrors, locks. So they DO have rollers... I must clean them....

 

As far as I can tell, the engine is in great shape, it doesn't even leak anywhere really, and just had a good bit of maintenance done to it. So running it at highway speeds is ok, just keep a check on the tranny fluid.

[NorthWet]

The rhythmic fuel pump would have pointed at the car having "diagnostic connectors"  connected, which cycles the fuel pump on and off every 5 seconds or so.  (People see the connectors and assume that they need to always be connected...)   Does not sound like that is the case.

 

Problems only on sweeping right handers points to a specific issue with the PCV system; again, does not seem to be your issue.

 

These Subaru engines, in general, are pretty tough.  The biggest weakness of the EA82 engine in your Loyale is overheating due to hose breakage or marginal cooling system performance.  (The radiators tend to get/be plugged up.)  Overheating tends to cause the decades-old headgaskets to  give up.  The other common issue is the timing belt system, where you have belts of unknown age/mileage, and rollers/idlers that tend to seize.  It is a non-interference engine, which means that if the t-belt does break no damage will occur to the valves or pistons.  

[Sandrion]

Ok, just drove the Soob on a two hour drive on the interstate, performed admirably, but when I got into the town I was going to, it started acting up, like it couldn't sense what the gas pedal was doing. It almost shut down totally a couple times. It would bog down and almost quit then would pick right up and buzz along for a minute, then bog down again, especially after I started and stopped at stop lights.

What could be my problem?

[NorthWet]

Ok, just drove the Soob on a two hour drive on the interstate, performed admirably, but when I got into the town I was going to, it started acting up, like it couldn't sense what the gas pedal was doing. It almost shut down totally a couple times. It would bog down and almost quit then would pick right up and buzz along for a minute, then bog down again, especially after I started and stopped at stop lights.

 

What could be my problem?

Does your check engine light come on at any time... including with the rest of the warning lights when starting the engine?

[NorthWet]

By the way, since the car is new to you (maintenance history unknown/uncertain), and since you are having what might be fuel delivery problems, replacing the fuel filter would be something worth considering.  US$10-20, but you would know that was not an issue for many miles to come.

[l75eya]

Definitely replace the fuel filter. It's right under the hood in the driver's side corner close to the windshield. As far as the noise goes, are you saying that it's a different pitch? Or is it constant. Reason being, the SPFI cars have pretty loud fuel pumps and you can usually hear them. Another common thing is if you're sitting at a red light with the blinker on, you'll hear the fuel pump whine change pitch with the blinkers.
It's normal.

Power windows; do a search for ultimate subaru message board slow power windows on google. It should get you to the threads that are already written on here addressing that. Basically, you should take the door apart and grease the tracks for the windows.

Dash lights sounds like a loose wire/ground in the cluster.

High RPMS on the highway are normal. Car was designed for interstate speed limits of 55 back in the day.
I've personally cruised for 10 + hours to canada at 65mph with no issues. You should be running at about 3900 rpms at 65. You can even cruise at 70 or 75 if you want but it's going to hurt your fuel economy.

Is your car FWD or 4wd?

Pics would be cool too. We all like pics here. =)

Congrats on the purchase (it's def. a steal) and welcome to the site! Hope we are all able to help eachother.

PS: NGK spark plugs. ALL the time. Subarus love them.

Also, check the timing when you get a chance. You have to connect to two green connectors (somebody will correct me if I'm wrong) when you check the timing. They are by the fuel filter and there is a black rubber dust cover on the bellhousing for the transmission under-neath the spare tire. Timing should be 20 degrees IIRC.

Edited March 9, 2013 by l75eya

[AKghandi]

the bogging sounds like an intake pipe leak, check the pipe from the top of the motor to the air box, it may be split on the underside.

 

congrats on your new subie, after you get the bugs worked out I'm sure you'll leave that s10 parked a lot lol

[l75eya]

He'll be using the s10 to bring back the EJ22 he's going to eventually swap in after he falls in love with our site and the car and checks out how easy the swap is.

[scoobiedubie]

The guide channels for wheels that attach to the bottom of the glass panels, need to be regreased with lithium spray grease.  The scratches in the glass can be mostly polished out with car wax and a buffing pad, attached to a drill.  The white plastic guide wheels for the glass, should be removed, cleaned and the dirt removed.  Try some super grade gas in order to get the bog out.  Lightly sand the electrodes in the distributor cap, to improve performance.  Chech all plugs wires for green corrosion in the connectors.  Lightly sand the end of the rotor, to remove the corrosion.

[Sandrion]

Alright, to reply to all the replies... here it goes.

 

I just replaced the fuel filter about 20 min ago, didnt make a difference. Before I replaced it though, I had let the car sit for about two hours, then drove it around town, and it IS NOT bogging as bad as before. Now it is back to just cutting out momentarily when I go around curves... Oh well, any more suggestions? Btw, checked the rubber tube for the air. It is fine, nice and supple and bendy. Not cracked or hard at all.

 

The check engine light along with oil and other lights come on when I start the car, like normal, but they have not come on at all. It isnt throwing codes I am assuming, or the light would be on.

 

As for the fuel filter, the pitch changes, but it is constantly making noise, it just sort of growls at you, URRR, urrr, URRR, urrr... best I can do through type.

 

Power windows, I can handle all that, all my questions have now been answered about them, and I will get on it as soon as possible.

 

I just drove the car for 2 hours at 70-75 mph, so Im not afraid of that anymore, Im good.

 

Just a FWD, pics coming soon, I also like pics, just haven't had time.

 

As for the timing, how exactly do I check that, I know where the bell housing is and the cover you speak of, as well as the connectors. Just how exactly to do it, is what Im fuzzy on.

 

Im going to replace all the plugs, plug wires, dist cap and rotor button. That is just common practice for me on any new (to me) car.

 

As for the buffing of the glass, I will have to try that. Its a bit scratched, and gets on my nerves.

 

 

Hey now, I love my s10, has took me many a mile, I put over 50,000 on it in ONE year. A great truck, now... I love the Soob, and also this site, so what is a EJ22??

 

As for super grade gas, I will have to try that out. Also, when the tank is all the way full, it doesnt bog when I go around curves, usually happens at "1/2" tank or less..

Edited March 9, 2013 by Sandrion

[Tofutti]

The best I can tell you is, first of all, Welcome to the world of Subaru! I'm not new to Subaru's but I am fairly new to this site (and very new to actually CARING about my subies) and I'm still learning "terms" but as far as I know, "EJ22" is referring to one of the 2.2 liter engines used in the early to late '90's Subies (with exceptions, like anything else). They are referring to the engine model numbers. Just like if you dig around under your hood on the back of your block or up near your bell housing, you'll see "EA82" in there somewhere, so whenever you see EA82 on this site, you know they're talking about your 1.8 engine.

Again, congrats on the new-to-you Subie! I've had many over the years and am just now trying to treat them right, hence learning about them a bit here. I've always bought them for less than $500.00 and drove them for years without ever even changing the oil, and thrown them away when the body rotted off or got in to something structural beyond repair. ..But the damn things always drove themselves to the scrapyard, even after 200k miles that I put on AFTER I bought them.. . I've never had a vehicle just go and go and go without ANY maintenance like a Subaru, so now I'm just trying to do the right thing with an oldie.
I also had the same reservations about engine RPM with the Loyale 3-speed auto (My current Subie is my first Loyale that was an auto..) But NorthWet fixed that lol. He is wise, as are most others here. (Myself not-included) lol
Good luck to you my friend.

[l75eya]

High rpms aren't a problem so long as you keep on top of your oil + filter changes, and tranny fluid.
 

 

so what is a EJ22??

It's pretty common for people to swap in the engines from later model subarus. They are the EJ series engines that produce more power and do so more efficiently. EJ power in your EA model vehicle equals a noticeably faster vehicle, and better fuel economy to boot!

As for the timing, you have to hook up those green connectors to disable any type of timing advance and such by the ECU, have your car up to op. temp, hook one cable from your timing light to a ground and one to a spark plug. Point the gun at the flywheel and it should flash in synchronization with the '20' degree mark on your flywheel. If the timing is correct. That's the quick and dirty of it.

[Sandrion]

Alright, doing the timing doesnt sound to hard at all. Pretty easily actually.. Gotta find a timing light somewhere though. 

 

As for the engine swap, how hard is it to do exactly. I have read a couple things on it, but not much. A straight bolt up? Will it work with the AT3, FWD only? Where do I find one of these engines, Soobs arent as prolific down here in North Carolina as they are everywhere else it seems. Any other Southeastern based guys here?

[NorthWet]

Updating to the newer EJ-series engines is a major undertaking.  The engine control system is different, so fairly major wiring modifications are needed.  Although it should be possible to bolt an EJ22 to your "3AT" transmission, it would require an adapter plate (as it would for any pre-EJ-series transmission).  Lots of other little fiddly bits to do.  Could upgrade to the 4-speed electronically controlled automatic ("4EAT") that fits the EJ22, but that requires more mods.  Or, change over to a manual transmission FWD or 4WD, with even more mods.

 

Not for the faint of heart, or someone not severely emotionally invested in our car cult.

Edited March 10, 2013 by NorthWet

[l75eya]

Yeah, as mentioned, it's not like a quick pull and replace. I'm pretty sure if you look in the engines section of the ultimate Subaru repair manual on the main page, there a write up about the swap. Long story short though, it's a bit of a Labour and price investment

[Sandrion]

Hmm, might still be something I would undertake, if only I could find one to swap in. These older Subi's are notoriously hard to find in this part of the country. 

[MR_Loyale]

The best I can tell you is, first of all, Welcome to the world of Subaru! I'm not new to Subaru's but I am fairly new to this site (and very new to actually CARING about my subies) and I'm still learning "terms" but as far as I know, "EJ22" is referring to one of the 2.2 liter engines used in the early to late '90's Subies (with exceptions, like anything else). They are referring to the engine model numbers. Just like if you dig around under your hood on the back of your block or up near your bell housing, you'll see "EA82" in there somewhere, so whenever you see EA82 on this site, you know they're talking about your 1.8 engine.

 

Again, congrats on the new-to-you Subie! I've had many over the years and am just now trying to treat them right, hence learning about them a bit here. I've always bought them for less than $500.00 and drove them for years without ever even changing the oil, and thrown them away when the body rotted off or got in to something structural beyond repair. ..But the damn things always drove themselves to the scrapyard, even after 200k miles that I put on AFTER I bought them.. . I've never had a vehicle just go and go and go without ANY maintenance like a Subaru, so now I'm just trying to do the right thing with an oldie.

I also had the same reservations about engine RPM with the Loyale 3-speed auto (My current Subie is my first Loyale that was an auto..) But NorthWet fixed that lol. He is wise, as are most others here. (Myself not-included) lol

Good luck to you my friend.

 

 

Actually the EA82 is stamped on the engine block towards the front passenger side. If you lean over the radiator and scan the block on the left (passenger side), you will see EA82.

[MR_Loyale]

Just recently bought this Subi Loyale sedan off CL for the whopping price of $675, has some little issues but overall, it was a steal!

 

I had a couple questions, as I am new to Subi's as I have driven a 1988 Chevy s10 until now, now I drive both it and the Subi. I am pretty proficient at working on my own vehicle, so any advice is helpful to me.

 

First off, the dash backlights for the gauges sometimes go out, I can smack the dash and they come back on, usually it is the left side lights. Just the backlights for the gauges.    What could it be causing this?

 

Second, my fuel pump makes a funny noise, like it is surging or something to that affect, I assume this is not good. What could this be?

 

Third, sometimes when I go around curves, or give it gas, it wants to bog out on me, it acts like my S10 does when it is running out of gas, (just dies until it picks up a little more), except I usually keep the tank at least halfway full. Any particular reason this happens? Could be the pump? Or a sensor of some sort?  I have the 1.8l single point injection.

 

Fourth, I have the 3 speed auto model. To run 55-65 I have to push the engine harder than I do in my truck, I know that the engine is designed towards this, but will it hurt it in any way if I drive it for say, 1 hour at sustained 65 mph?

 

Fifth, the tach and speedo sometimes stick a little, the tach more so than the speedo. Can I fix this? What causes it.?

 

Sixth, my windows... They have a hard time rolling up and down, and have what looks to be roller scratches on them.. Do they have rollers? If so, are they accessible for cleaning? I fear they may have grit in them, which will continue to eat away at my windows..

 

 

Any answer or help is greatly appreciated, this car has only 70,000 miles on it, and really is in great shape, I will be asking more questions as I go along, but this is a good start. Thanks in advance for all you guys' help!!

 

 

Thanks, Sandrion.

 

You have basically the same car I do. Mine is a white FWD sedan but with manual trans. I am the original owner, have had it since 1994 and still runs great at 145k.  I haven't done my windows yet but I have repaired the door lock actuator on the passenger side. They are great little cars and esy to work on.

[MR_Loyale]

High rpms aren't a problem so long as you keep on top of your oil + filter changes, and tranny fluid.

 

 

It's pretty common for people to swap in the engines from later model subarus. They are the EJ series engines that produce more power and do so more efficiently. EJ power in your EA model vehicle equals a noticeably faster vehicle, and better fuel economy to boot!

 

As for the timing, you have to hook up those green connectors to disable any type of timing advance and such by the ECU, have your car up to op. temp, hook one cable from your timing light to a ground and one to a spark plug. Point the gun at the flywheel and it should flash in synchronization with the '20' degree mark on your flywheel. If the timing is correct. That's the quick and dirty of it.

 

 

Also on the timing thing, under your hood is a VECI sticker (Vehicle Emission Control Information) that tells of the specifics for the timing for your particular car.

[rdweninger]

Definitely change your ATF.  I believe it holds about 7 quarts.  Maybe 3 - 4 quarts will drain out.

I changed mine twice in a 2 week period.   Figured that 75% was now 'new' fluid.

The transmission shifts much better now.

You will also have a front differential dipstick.  That will take 80w/90   or 75w/90 gear oil.   I believe the dipstick will have the 1.2 liter capacity stamped on it.    Definitely change the diff oil.

This is cheap insurance.

[Sandrion]

Definitely going to change the diff oil and the tranny fluid. Those two things, as well as Spark plugs, new rotor, new cap, new wires and plugs, are all part of my "new to me car" beginning maintenance.

[Sandrion]

I have found out that I have trash in my fuel tank, and it is clogging the screen in my fuel pump up, causing my engine to bog, as mentioned above. I am dropping the tank this weekend and cleaning it out, will report back with results.

[NorthWet]

Definitely going to change the diff oil and the tranny fluid. Those two things, as well as Spark plugs, new rotor, new cap, new wires and plugs, are all part of my "new to me car" beginning maintenance.

Word to the wise (from the unwise...):  Make sure that you can remove the fill plug on the diff before you remove the drain plug.  Many years ago, I had a shop (Goodyear, I think) change my diff oil.  They pulled the drain plug first, then couldn't get the fill plug to break loose.  It took them 2 days to finally figure out how to get it to break free.  If you can't fill it, best not to drain it first.