Lacyjs9 Posted April 11, 2013 Share Posted April 11, 2013 i have an 87 its a 2bl and my manual says the correct timing is 8 degres BTDC i checked it and its at 20 who ever had it b4 me must have set it cause its marked at 20 and everything is 8 right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rain_man_rich Posted April 11, 2013 Share Posted April 11, 2013 Does it say under the hood? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikaleda Posted April 12, 2013 Share Posted April 12, 2013 8 degrees is correct, but with a weber timing can be set to 20 degrees for good low end tourqe. If you have a stock hitachi though 20 degrees would mean you have a vaccume leak somewhere or your idle speed is wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverback Posted April 12, 2013 Share Posted April 12, 2013 Would your manual be the small manual that came with the vehicle? Subaru 1987 owner's manual? For Hitachi carbs, 2WD is 20 degrees BTDC & 4WD carbureted is 8 degrees BTDC at specified rpm. Manual transmission is 700 rpm and AT is 800 rpm. Not sure of your background but check timing with vacuum advance hose disconnected and plugged. More input: Hitachi or Weber? What do the plugs look like? How long have you had it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lacyjs9 Posted April 12, 2013 Author Share Posted April 12, 2013 its an hitachi i got it in February and its in the haynes manual it is 4wd plugs are new rotor cap and button are new im gonna turn down to 8 and adjust the carb and see what happens Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loyale 2.7 Turbo Posted April 12, 2013 Share Posted April 12, 2013 Carburated EA82's are intended to be set at 8º while EFi EA82's are intended to be set at 20º My 1985 EA82 "BumbleBeast" used to have an Under the Hood Sticker which said 8º +/- 2º and is FWD 5MT. Despite that, since I run it with a Weber Carburator, I set it to 20º without any issues. EA82's with Hitachi carburators shall has it at 8º Kind Regards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lacyjs9 Posted April 12, 2013 Author Share Posted April 12, 2013 ok i set it to 8 but my manual says 8 BTDC and said it should be 2 groups of numbers A & B 1-20 but it only has group A i dont understand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilesFox Posted April 13, 2013 Share Posted April 13, 2013 8 deg is correct for carb models. IT may have been set to 20 deg by the PO as per the spfi timing instruction. No harm done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomRhere Posted April 13, 2013 Share Posted April 13, 2013 ok i set it to 8 but my manual says 8 BTDC and said it should be 2 groups of numbers A & B 1-20 but it only has group A i dont understand The "A" and "B" refer to where the piston is in it's stroke. "A" is After Top Dead Center, (ATDC). "B" is Before Top Dead Center, (BTDC). Ignition timing is always set to BTDC. Your carbed engine should be set to 8*BTDC as the manual says. But,, a bit more initial timing can be used. Set timing to 8*, see how it runs. Then bump it to 9*, 10* and so on. Listen for spark knock/detonation. If you hear any of that, back it down a bit. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickNakorn Posted April 13, 2013 Share Posted April 13, 2013 I've always found that the manufacturers setting is the best compromise between longevity, performance and economy so stick to their recommendation; I run my 1991 EA82 (Hitachi carb) with 20 BTDC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lacyjs9 Posted April 13, 2013 Author Share Posted April 13, 2013 The "A" and "B" refer to where the piston is in it's stroke. "A" is After Top Dead Center, (ATDC). "B" is Before Top Dead Center, (BTDC). Ignition timing is always set to BTDC. Your carbed engine should be set to 8*BTDC as the manual says. But,, a bit more initial timing can be used. Set timing to 8*, see how it runs. Then bump it to 9*, 10* and so on. Listen for spark knock/detonation. If you hear any of that, back it down a bit. ok for example i remove the lil cover to view flywheel it says A - - 8- 10 - - - 20 or what ever if i kep turning it i dont see a B done the same way thats what m confused about Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted April 13, 2013 Share Posted April 13, 2013 A is before the 0 the numbers are on the B side of tdc. 87 is a wierd year. There are small differences in the vaccum routing and a few other detail on the hitachi carbs that year. The 87 FSM DOES NOT reflect these changes. I guess they didn't feel the need to update a chapter in the book that was being deleted the next year. That said, I've experienced that the 87 Carb set up (hitachi carb, denso disty) runs best at 20 degrees like the SPFI engines. Call me crazy. I set 87s to 20 Degrees......I think it's where they do best, and may be meant to be, but the "paperwork" doesn't reflect the changes. This is my theory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loyale 2.7 Turbo Posted April 13, 2013 Share Posted April 13, 2013 A is before the 0 the numbers are on the B side of tdc. 87 is a wierd year. There are small differences in the vaccum routing and a few other detail on the hitachi carbs that year. The 87 FSM DOES NOT reflect these changes. I guess they didn't feel the need to update a chapter in the book that was being deleted the next year... ...for the USDM only. LADM and other world areas continued receiving Carburated EA82's up to 1994. (By the way, early EJ engines also came factory with Carb + Disty up to 1994 to LADM = Latin American Domestic Market) I've always found that the manufacturers setting is the best compromise between longevity, performance and economy so stick to their recommendation; I run my 1991 EA82 (Hitachi carb) with 20 BTDC. Nick: I found your post a Little "Contradictory" Because first you wrote: I've always found that the manufacturers setting is the best compromise between longevity, performance and economy... Which as far as I Know, is 8º +/- 2º is the factory specs for Carburated EA82's. But then you Wrote: ...so stick to their recommendation; I run my 1991 EA82 (Hitachi carb) with 20 BTDC. So, Unless your 1991 Carburated EA82 does specify 20º I believe that you set the timing on your engine, by the EFi EA82 Specs. Could you give more info on that subject? ... I Wonder if Subaru changed the Specs for Late Carburated EA82's. Also, those of us with Carburated EA82's with Weber Carburator, use the timing set at 20º as the EFI EA82's Specs, without issues. Kind Regards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lacyjs9 Posted April 13, 2013 Author Share Posted April 13, 2013 appreciate the help this is my first roo and carburated car I LOVE IT im gonna leave it at 8* doesnt seem to be running as hard hopefully it will help my gas mileage. If not i will be back with more questions lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickNakorn Posted April 13, 2013 Share Posted April 13, 2013 Hi Jeszek, You might be right (after all, both Hayners and Subaru might be wrong) but I'm reasonably confident my infomation is correct for my UK spec car. I'm not saying all EA82 Hitachi carb cars should run at 20 BTDC (there's regional variation), just that that's what I do because it's recommended by both Haynes and Subaru. The car runs well on it too. Our 'regular' 4star unleaded is a 95 RON fuel with 'super' being 97 RON (a very few UK garages sell a 99 RON but it's expensive) so there will be regional differences in timing advance given that the highest 'super' in some countries is less than our 'reguar'. According to (might be wrong) Wikipedia, Honduras 'regular; is 87 RON so naturally the timing will be less advanced than for a UK spec car. I think the USA has the greatest choice but I'm sure USA posters will know their local octane ranges. I suspect that the regional Subaru recommendations take account of fuel variations and thus the timing settings will be a best compromise for 'your' neck of the woods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loyale 2.7 Turbo Posted April 13, 2013 Share Posted April 13, 2013 @ Nick: Yes, you're Right, Honduran fuel is a very Low Octane Fuel; but let me tell you that my Subaru came Running from USA almost New, in 1985, so it is a USDM (California) Version, and it has an "Under-the-Hood" Sticker that says set the Timing at 8º ... +/- 2º ... Also I saw the same Sticker on Local (LADM = Latin American Domestic Market) Specs EA82 Subarus from the same Era... ...So I was Curious to see what says in the "Under-the-Hood" Sticker in your 1991 Carburated EA82 Subaru; Have you seen it? Does it Says 8º or 20º? I Believe that the Timing set varies on the Market, depending more on the Emissions Control Stuff installed on the Engine, rather than the Gasoline it will use. appreciate the help this is my first roo and carburated car I LOVE IT im gonna leave it at 8* doesnt seem to be running as hard hopefully it will help my gas mileage. If not i will be back with more questions lol @ Lacyjs9: You're Welcome! Sorry for Hijack your Thread... ... Kind Regards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lacyjs9 Posted April 14, 2013 Author Share Posted April 14, 2013 no problem im in the states and i just noticed the under the hood sticker that says 8* but my haynes manual say al carburated engines 8* and the fuel injected models are 20* @ Nick: Yes, you're Right, Honduran fuel is a very Low Octane Fuel; but let me tell you that my Subaru came Running from USA almost New, in 1985, so it is a USDM (California) Version, and it has an "Under-the-Hood" Sticker that says set the Timing at 8º ... +/- 2º ... Also I saw the same Sticker on Local (LADM = Latin American Domestic Market) Specs EA82 Subarus from the same Era... ...So I was Curious to see what says in the "Under-the-Hood" Sticker in your 1991 Carburated EA82 Subaru; Have you seen it? Does it Says 8º or 20º? I Believe that the Timing set varies on the Market, depending more on the Emissions Control Stuff installed on the Engine, rather than the Gasoline it will use. @ Lacyjs9: You're Welcome! Sorry for Hijack your Thread... ... Kind Regards. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loyale 2.7 Turbo Posted April 14, 2013 Share Posted April 14, 2013 Thank You! ... i just noticed the under the hood sticker that says 8* but my haynes manual say al carburated engines 8* and the fuel injected models are 20*.... Yes, that was Exactly what I was Writing About. Kind Regards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickNakorn Posted April 14, 2013 Share Posted April 14, 2013 My Haynes manual (UK reprint) states that 1987 to 1989 carb models should be 8 BTDC, all injection cars at 20 BTDC and that all models 1990 to 1994 should be 20 BTD so there's no problem there. I have never had an under-the-hood sticker and don't recall one on any of the 4 EA82 cars I've owned; perhaps UK versions did not have them. While the 1989 onwards Subaru service manual (that I have downloaded) does not specify (an error on subaru's part?) the timing for carb models, it does specify 20 BTDC across the range of all the other fuel injected models and my local Subaru garage also concurs with the 20 BTDC for my carb car. As my car/s have done many tens of thousands of miles set at 20 BTDC, I'm happy to stick with that setting using 95 RON. As I've said there might be regional variations for different model years, different fuels systems and so on. I don't see a problem at all. If your car runs well, doesn't ping/k and has no flat spots, good fuel consumption and so-on, then all is well. If you're not happy with the 'factory/haynes' recommendation then set it to your own spec. If you're on a very tight budget and low octane fuel is cheaper in your area then simply retard the timing until there's no ping/king under low vacuum, high load conditions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loyale 2.7 Turbo Posted April 14, 2013 Share Posted April 14, 2013 Thank you for your Kind Answer... so No "Under-the-Hood" Stickers for UK Models? ... That's New for me. And I Agree with you: .... As my car/s have done many tens of thousands of miles set at 20 BTDC, I'm happy to stick with that setting using 95 RON. .... I don't see a problem at all. If your car runs well, doesn't ping/k and has no flat spots, good fuel consumption and so-on, then all is well. If you're not happy with the 'factory/haynes' recommendation then set it to your own spec. ... Kind Regards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lacyjs9 Posted April 14, 2013 Author Share Posted April 14, 2013 ya'll recommend high octane fuel? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikaleda Posted April 14, 2013 Share Posted April 14, 2013 (edited) I think where you get your fuel is more important than octane, I only have thee gas stations I go to because they have the better quality gas than the other places. Example: less water in the gas, newer tanks, car responds better. Another thing to look at now because of the ethonal, how many people use the gas stations and what kind if fuel is most used, I know I will not get mid grade from the stations around the lake because nobody buys it and so it sits in the tank and degrades. Edited April 14, 2013 by mikaleda 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JuhaKankkunen Posted April 14, 2013 Share Posted April 14, 2013 In Argentina The fuel has 95 Octane. My EA81 sedan it set 5 BTDC ADN my wagon was 14 BTDC Today I did a Carb swap between both cars because I did a carb rebuild on wagon. Now both cars are 6BTDC and everything seems to be ok. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickNakorn Posted April 14, 2013 Share Posted April 14, 2013 I think where you get your fuel is more important than octane, I only have thee gas stations I go to because they have the better quality gas than the other places. Example: less water in the gas, newer tanks, car responds better. Another thing to look at now because of the ethonal, how many people use the gas stations and what kind if fuel is most used, I know I will not get mid grade from the stations around the lake because nobody buys it and so it sits in the tank and degrades. I agree that fuel free of contamination is important (If the tank is in good condition the fuel wont degrade sufficiently to make a noticable difference even if some lighter hexane is lost) but the octane rating definitely makes a big difference because high octane fuels burns more slowly, makes the power stroke slightly smoother and gives a longer burn. But, providing the timing is correctly set, low octane fuels are fine even if the duration of the burn is shorter - power is only reduced slightly though torque might suffer. So, yes, clean fuel is a must but, given clean fuel, the timing needs to be matched to the octane used. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loyale 2.7 Turbo Posted April 15, 2013 Share Posted April 15, 2013 This is the "Under-the-Hood" Sticker I was Writing About, just in case you wanna see it: Kind Regards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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