'92 Legacy SS Auto Trans Slipping- weird...

[dave833]

The auto transmission in the '92 Legacy SS I got recently suddenly started slipping badly today. Slips when hot or cold in all gears, no flashing POWER light or codes. I replaced the fluid, which was probably 10 years old, and it made no difference. This was a "barn find" car that had been parked for maybe 10 years before I got it, but it shifted OK for a few weeks before today.

 

The weird thing is if I turn off the car for a few seconds and restart it, the transmission will work normally for about 30 seconds before it starts slipping again. (I know- it's the perfect opportunity to swap in a 5-speed.) has anyone else seen this kind of problem with an automatic?

Edited April 14, 2013 by dave833

[1 Lucky Texan]

um, are you checking the fluid level with the engine idling?

 

 

also, a car stored like that might benefit from 3 or 4 drain/fill cycles of transmission fluid, with a day or 2 of driving between each, if possible

[NorthWet]

Is it slipping (some power transfer) or acting like it is in Neutral?

[mikaleda]

Could also be a clogged trans cooler to, easy way to test that is to loop the line back to the trans and drive it a bit and see if there's any differance. I would try 1lucky texans idea first since its sat for a while.

[ivans imports]

Have seen many that pan gets dented and dislodges the fillter were the oring sits and alows air to be sucked in past oring and airates the fliud causeing bad shifting and whine when it sitts the fliud losses the air and shifts ok till it happens agian

[dave833]

There is some power transfer. When moving the shift lever it's hard to tell whether the car's even going into gear but if I rev the engine the car does move.. Definitely worse today- not even drivable and the little trick of turning the car off and then back on to restore normal operation briefly seems to have stopped working. There is a whine coming from the transmission housing too. I didn't notice that the fluid was aerated.

Edited April 15, 2013 by dave833

[ivans imports]

mabee airated but probly to late worth a try to pull the pan check fillter and see how mutch debrie is in the pan thiss will tell you how bad it is inside

[1 Lucky Texan]

mabee airated but probly to late worth a try to pull the pan check fillter and see how mutch debrie is in the pan thiss will tell you how bad it is inside

yeah, I was given a Plymouth Fury once. Little-old-man situation where the widow didn't drive. The car didn't make it to my house. When the mechanic took the pan off the transmission, it was packed with a semi-solid emulsion!

 

free car was not free

[idosubaru]

early legacy's have a problem with the trans lines clogging..at the radiator or cooler or filter or something - this is probably your issue.  i'm sure you can search to figure the problem out.

 

subaru even addressed the issue with an add-on filter for the ATF lines.  i think it's only like 1991 and 1992 subaru's.

 

the simple and quick solution/test would be to simply bypass the radiator altogether - just attach the hoses together put a nipple/pipe or something to clamp them both to and not go through the radiator.

or just install an aftermarket ATF cooler in it's place.

[dave833]

I bypassed the trans cooler and that didn't seem to make any difference. The pump is making the same kind of whine a power steering pump makes when it's fluid-starved. Is it common for the pumps to just fail suddenly? I haven't had a chance to pull the pan & filter yet.

Edited April 15, 2013 by dave833

[idosubaru]

have you looked into what years had those clogged lines...i think there was even a recall.

if so - is your car in the years for that and has yours had that recall done?

 

no, not common.

i would guess it's possible the lines were clogged and damage was previously done.

but of course check other possibilities....

[dave833]

I dropped the pan tonight. There were no big chunks of anything, just a few "sparklies" in the fluid when I drained it. Fluid was nice and red and not burned. The pan magnet had about 1/8" of sludge on it. The pan had the thick paper gasket rather than rubber, suggesting that it may have been the original. The gold mesh of the filter had a layer of brown gunk on it that I'm sure was impeding the fluid flow- it may have been original too, with 136k miles on it! I hope that was the problem-- I won't have a replacement to put in until tomorrow.

[ivans imports]

make shure oring on fillter is seated in the bore exactly right is critical that oring makes a good seal i also cut a notch in the rectangle oil pu part of filter so if pan gets hit will not stop flow

[mikaleda]

I dropped the pan tonight. There were no big chunks of anything, just a few "sparklies" in the fluid when I drained it. Fluid was nice and red and not burned. The pan magnet had about 1/8" of sludge on it. The pan had the thick paper gasket rather than rubber, suggesting that it may have been the original. The gold mesh of the filter had a layer of brown gunk on it that I'm sure was impeding the fluid flow- it may have been original too, with 136k miles on it! I hope that was the problem-- I won't have a replacement to put in until tomorrow.

Sounds like you found your problem, hopefully tha fixes it. It's not unusual to see a few shavings on these autos, filter is supposed to be cleanable so don't throw your old one away yet.

[dave833]

I cut the old filter open just to see how bad it really was. You can see where I scraped away the gunk to reveal the gold mesh of the filter underneath. I'm surprised any fluid at all was getting through.

Edited April 16, 2013 by dave833

[mikaleda]

Yuck that looks pretty well clogged. I guess I was wrong those filters arn't cleanable. Must have just been the trans I was working on that had the cleanable filter.

Edited April 16, 2013 by mikaleda

[dave833]

The new filter appears to have solved the problem. I just got back from a test drive and the trans is now working correctly & no longer sipping. Thanks everyone for your help.

[ivans imports]

looks like forward clutch materail or band hows the 2nd and 3rd gear shifts ? redish brown is soft parts meatal is bushings or planetarys and brown hairy stuff is band

[mikaleda]

It's probably just the shavings from the rear clutch pack, I wouldn't say that's too abnormal. Just my $0.02

[dave833]

Looks reddish brown to me but not hairy... Shift into 2nd seems kind of late to me compared to my SVX.

[ivans imports]

Have done so many 4eats that i can look at the materail in the pan and tell whats wrong inside in your case the band i think is on its way out it tends to lose its coating and break down it can be addjusted. And is not to hard to replace I am ushaly doing forward clutchpack and band on those

[idosubaru]

woah crack, that is an intense about of something.  could it be bad/old fluid or an inline filter material degrading....?

 

i've never seen any debris on a 4EAT internal filter up to 200,000 miles, they are so spotless i now consider them pointless to replace and haven't replaced one in years. my daily drivers are at 210k, 190k, and 170k and i'm not touching any of them, completely pointless as i know (or am guessing) they they are completely clean like all the others i've ever seen. i've never heard of someone pulling one and saying it was dirty either.  i'm sure failing trans have issues, but i don't rebuild i just replace so hardly worth pulling those.  seems to me like something caused, at one point, or is causing that.

[dave833]

There was no inline external filter of the type that Subaru added during the recall campaign for early '90s 4EATs. The car was a "barn find" and was off the road for 10+ years for unknown reasons, so I'm hoping the buildup was related to fluid going bad after sitting that long or something. If the slipping returns I'll pull the pan & filter and see if the new filter's clogged too. I've never replaced a Subaru trans filter either except for one damaged when the trans pan got dented in, but if the filters *never* get dirty or clogged, what's the point in even having one?

[mikaleda]

From what I understand about the inline filters, in 91 there was a TSB on the trans coolers in the radiators getting clogged and causing problems, so they added an inline external filter. I was told by the parts store was its a magnetic filter because of high amounts of metal shavings in these transmissions, and since the phase 2 4eat'a came with a spin on filter I would think this to be a fairly common problem, but obviously it doesn't look that way.

Edited April 19, 2013 by mikaleda

[idosubaru]

There was no inline external filter of the type that Subaru added during the recall campaign for early '90s 4EATs. The car was a "barn find" and was off the road for 10+ years for unknown reasons, so I'm hoping the buildup was related to fluid going bad after sitting that long or something. If the slipping returns I'll pull the pan & filter and see if the new filter's clogged too. I've never replaced a Subaru trans filter either except for one damaged when the trans pan got dented in, but if the filters *never* get dirty or clogged, what's the point in even having one?

 

i think that's a good guess - age related build up of some sort.

 

obviously it's good to have protection for odd situations, like yours.  what i mean by 'never' is that one of these clogging is a symptom of some other issue (like the ATF should be changed in yours, which you already did), they shouldn't have anything in them and never need changed unless something else fails. not like air or oil filters which are supposed to get dirty.  there are other screens on Subaru's fluids that are not mentioned by Subaru and never replaced by dealers or owners except in cases of internal failures that cause them to clog - they don't clog or get changed otherwise.