Zekeuyasha Posted April 21, 2013 Share Posted April 21, 2013 So my car died on the freeway a few days ago. I'm driving along at 65MPH, I have an A/T. I'm at 3600RPM when suddenly the tach drops to zero, I feel a slight lurch (like the engine went from pushing the wheels to the wheels pushing the engine) and the car rolls to a stop. I try to start again but all I get is dry cranking.I got it towed home and tested the plugs. none of them are getting spark. The coil tested kinda funky so I replaced it. no change. the car still will not start.It makes the same sound when I unplugged the first plug on the ECU (wires 43-52)Everything electrical (lights, horn, wipers, radio etc) works with the key in the accessory position AND the on position. I want to get this problem fixed quickly. I refuse to say my car is beyond repair because it happened so suddenly and nothing else is wrong with the engine. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bb7NDFy9mxQ Attached is a video I took just now describing the situation plus my cranking the engine. Thanks so much for reading! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
man on the moon Posted April 21, 2013 Share Posted April 21, 2013 Check whether the ECU is throwing a code, and report back what it is blinking at you. It will be a series of long and short blinks. Long blinks have a tens-place value, short ones a ones-place value. Eg three long blinks and three short would be "33". This will tell more than anything else, short of checking whether the timing belts are intact.Check whether the timing belts are both intact (there are little viewing holes in the cover, just pull the rubber plug out). Poke at the belts with your finger. There are other problems, like a failed rotor; disty problem (sensor?), ...start with the others first. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zekeuyasha Posted April 21, 2013 Author Share Posted April 21, 2013 Thanks a lot man on the moon! It's pretty dark out now so I can't really check anything right this second (I'd love to but I don't have any good lighting, I'll work on this beast all night if I could ) I did not know about the rubber stoppers covering a viewport on the timing cover. How would I check for the ECU throwing codes if I don't have an OBDII port? All I have on me is a multimeter. I might be able to find a code reader on the internet however. Like in the video the stop lamp is on, the charge lamp and the brake lamp are both on. Nothing about CEL . I have taken the dist cap off and that looks fine inside. The rotor feels a little chewed up on very end of it where it hits the contacts on its way around but other than that it looks clean, no water in it or anything. How did the engine sound in the video to you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikaleda Posted April 21, 2013 Share Posted April 21, 2013 (edited) You have OBDI you just need to connect the read memory connecters, they should be two single black plugs, plug the together and watch the check engine light blink. I think the connectors are usually either by the drivers side strut tower or under the steering column. The first page of the new gen FAQ sticky has a link on how to read OBDI legacys and imprezas it will tell you how to interpret the flashes and it will give you a list of codes. Edited April 21, 2013 by mikaleda 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zekeuyasha Posted April 21, 2013 Author Share Posted April 21, 2013 thanks mikaleda, but I have a 90 Loyale, has different things on it. The engine is an EA-82 and I think all of the legacies/imprezas use the EJ series of engine, Would there be any difference between my loyale and a legacy as far as ports and ECUs go? They're not interchangeable I don't think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
man on the moon Posted April 21, 2013 Share Posted April 21, 2013 (edited) No, it's simpler than that. No code reader necessary. If you are plugging and unplugging the wire harnesses from the ECU you are already there, just need to know what to look at. Look at the long edge of the ECU that would be facing the steering wheel if it were bolted up under the dash (I'm assuming you unbolted it). There is a little hole with a red LED in it. The LED will blink codes at you. Crank the engine, then let the key sit in the 'run' position (though it isn't running) and count the blinks. My memory could be faulty, it's been a while since I used the plug thingies. If no codes blink, look under the hood near the starter/coil/firewall. Should be a green and a white set of plugs, unconnected. Connect the green ones together (or is it the white ones? try both). One locks the timing so you can set it. The other puts the ECU in a test sort of mode thing. If you didn't previously get codes, yuo will after connecting the plugs. Just make sure to disconnect them before driving. Edited April 21, 2013 by man on the moon 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikaleda Posted April 21, 2013 Share Posted April 21, 2013 Green connector is for test mode, should still be the same codes, I'm not as familiar with the loyals as the legacys so I would go with man on the moons directions. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zukiru Posted April 21, 2013 Share Posted April 21, 2013 My money is on the drivers side timing belt. That idler pulley likes to freeze and eat the teeth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferox Posted April 21, 2013 Share Posted April 21, 2013 Check your fuses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john in KY Posted April 21, 2013 Share Posted April 21, 2013 Crank engine with the distributor cap off. If the rotor doesn't turn, broken timing belt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
man on the moon Posted April 21, 2013 Share Posted April 21, 2013 Crank engine with the distributor cap off. If the rotor doesn't turn, broken timing belt. This is only true for the driver side belt. You would get a spark if only the passenger side belt is broken, and the distributor would turn. Though I guess since the most prominent concern at the moment is spark, this would work well. Going the other way it would throw a spark, but run roughly or not at all. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zekeuyasha Posted April 21, 2013 Author Share Posted April 21, 2013 (edited) I just checked the ECU for codes. There were 2 green connectors under the hood near the brake master cylinder, ignition coil, etc. i plugged those in, cranked the engine and I got 7 quick flashes, a pause, and 7 quick flashes again, then a longer pause and it would then repeat. There is no code 77 and I have no idea what they meant. I unplugged the green connectors again, then cranked and waited. The LED in on the ECU blinked and gave me these codes in this order 11 = crank position sensor / circuit 13 = crank position sensor / circuit 34 = EGR solenoid circuit I got those translations from http://www.troublecodes.net/Subaru/ in the "1988 and later with SPFI" section EDIT: The same information was posted by USMB member Skip at: http://www.indysworld.com/80s/general/USRM/mick-usrm/electrical/ecucodes.html Now I need to figure out what caused that. Would a skipped timing belt tooth cause those numbers or would it be more directly related to the crank sensor? (on Loyales I believe the sensor is in the distributor) I know the EGR valve is unrelated to ignition but I'm curious about that now... EGR valve: It's funny about that, because I just rotated my tires and replaced my front brake pads and rotors. My fuel economy shot up from 23 to about 30MPG and the symptoms of a bad EGR is lower fuel economy and no power. Should I look into this? All my fuses and fusible links check out OK Edited April 21, 2013 by Zekeuyasha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Humble Posted April 21, 2013 Share Posted April 21, 2013 In watching your video. it sounded like uneven cranking, as in broken timing belt. The drivers side belt breaks the most often, and its the one that drives the dist. That may be why you have no spark. An easy way to check is to remove the dist. cap and crank the engine and see if the rotor turns. That should be checked first before looking at anything else. Mark 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john in KY Posted April 21, 2013 Share Posted April 21, 2013 This is only true for the driver side belt. You would get a spark if only the passenger side belt is broken, and the distributor would turn. Though I guess since the most prominent concern at the moment is spark, this would work well. Going the other way it would throw a spark, but run roughly or not at all. The OP stated the engine has no spark. The passenger-side timing belt whether it is broken or not has nothing to do with a no-spark condition. From experience I can attest the engine will run on 2 cylinders when the passenger-side belt breaks. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthWet Posted April 21, 2013 Share Posted April 21, 2013 Basics: As mentioned, take off the distributor cap and see if the rotor turns when you crank the engine - If no, then broken distributor-side timing belt. Replace belt and go. - Otherwise, grab the rotor and see if it will turn or pull off of the distributor shaft. I am pretty sure that your model uses a screw through the side of the rotor to retain it, and these often back out, allowing the rotor to move out of position. ECU codes on a non-starting engine can be more misleading than useful. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomRhere Posted April 21, 2013 Share Posted April 21, 2013 You will get codes 11 and 13 anytime you do a code reading. In test mode to read the codes, the engine is not running. ECU doesn't see any signal from the crank sensor, so it sets those codes. Code 34 is for the EGR vacuum solenoid/wiring. Not the EGR valve itself. As said, pull the outer Timing belt covers, check for broken belt, missing teeth. Especially on the drivers side belt, as that cam drives the distributor. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted April 21, 2013 Share Posted April 21, 2013 Code 7 is a model identifier. It means there are no codes present. You have a broken timing belt. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scoobiedubie Posted April 21, 2013 Share Posted April 21, 2013 If it was an 86, I would be looking to install another distributor after determining that the left side timing belt was not broken. I also would be checking the black wire in the fusible link box for brittleness or breakage. I would also be changing the capacitor on the coil. I would also be checking the hot wire to the alternator for breakage or brittleness. That is the wire that is attached with a nut. I would also be checking the wire from the coil to the distributor cap. I would be checking that coil wire copper contact ends for corrosion. I would also be checking the distributor cap for cracks. I would scrape the corrosion off of the distributor cap points. I would lightly sand the copper end of the rotor. I would make sure that no wires became disconnected inside of the distributor and that they all were installed properly onto the tabs. I would check the timing. I would be removing a plug to see whether the tip is covered in gas. I would see whether the radio works without static. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted April 21, 2013 Share Posted April 21, 2013 If it was an 86, I would be looking to install another distributor after determining that the left side timing belt was not broken. I also would be checking the black wire in the fusible link box for brittleness or breakage. I would also be changing the capacitor on the coil. I would also be checking the hot wire to the alternator for breakage or brittleness. That is the wire that is attached with a nut. I would also be checking the wire from the coil to the distributor cap. I would be checking that coil wire copper contact ends for corrosion. I would also be checking the distributor cap for cracks. I would scrape the corrosion off of the distributor cap points. I would lightly sand the copper end of the rotor. I would make sure that no wires became disconnected inside of the distributor and that they all were installed properly onto the tabs. I would check the timing. I would be removing a plug to see whether the tip is covered in gas. I would see whether the radio works without static. He has not determined that the belt isn't broken. And why on;y if it was an 86? almost everything you stated would be applicable to any EA82. Again.....this will be wasted time because he has either a broken t-belt or lost the rotor screw. My bet is on the t-belt as ussually there is some spark and backfireing if just the rotor is spinng free. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zekeuyasha Posted April 21, 2013 Author Share Posted April 21, 2013 (edited) Yeah scoobiedude, we've been diagnosing my problem on the thread for a while now. Which leads me to the next point: Thank you all for helping me, I greatly appreciate the help! USMB saved my rump roast yet again. It was the driver side timing belt that let go. So the distributor was not spinning, the crank angle sensor was not picking up rotation so it didn't send a spark. Shout-outs to: Man on the moon, mikaleda, zukiru, John in KY (lol on the running on 2 cylniders bit), Gloyale, NorthWet, Mark Humble, TomRhere. Skip and co. for the code translations and MilesFox for his "Art of Subaru Maintenance" videos that walked through engine and transmission removal, seals, timing belts and a tranny swap. Thank you! P. S. I'd count this as strike against Roulunds Rubber timing belts. This one was replaced before. This isn't OEM and that means its less than 45,000 miles old. Edited April 21, 2013 by Zekeuyasha 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
man on the moon Posted April 22, 2013 Share Posted April 22, 2013 The good news (aside from now knowing the problem) is that belt kits are relatively cheap. Get a kit, not just the belts. Replace the tensioners, even if they were done just 45k ago. If the belt went, the tensioners are probably sh*t too. A quick search (top right of this page) will bring up a dozen or more threads discussing many various aspects of replacing the belts, including how to set the timing. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scoobiedubie Posted April 22, 2013 Share Posted April 22, 2013 He has not determined that the belt isn't broken. And why on;y if it was an 86? almost everything you stated would be applicable to any EA82. Again.....this will be wasted time because he has either a broken t-belt or lost the rotor screw. My bet is on the t-belt as ussually there is some spark and backfireing if just the rotor is spinng free. Gloyale, If you reread my reply, it was clearly stated that it was for what I might do, "if I had already determined that the left side timing belt was not broken". I am not suggesting that the timing belt is not broken. I also do not own a 90 model year loyale, and am unfamiliar with the differences between the 90 and my 86 GL10. It is not my responsibility to know those differences, nor what modifications someone has done to his vehicle. As far as your opinion that my sharing of knowledge about how I might approach a similar situation that has happened to me many times, and Zek wasting his time by either reading about it and/or looking at his vehicle as a form of preventive maintenance, I am troubled by the tone of your entire reply. You appear to be in attack mode, which is completely uncalled for and inappropriate for this message board. In the future, I will just report you instead of spending my time explaining all this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikaleda Posted April 22, 2013 Share Posted April 22, 2013 (edited) Hey scoobie dude please do not get upset with me, I'm just an observer. I think gloyal was just pointing out that your post was a little hard to understand, like gloyal said why an 86? I don't think gloyal's intent was to attack you, just to try and make your post more clear and point out the belt is the first place to look. Edited April 22, 2013 by mikaleda 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rdweninger Posted April 22, 2013 Share Posted April 22, 2013 Hey everyone... play nice. I've been working with email (and online posts) since 1989. Heck... I practically invented it. So I will say this... ANY tone that you read into a message is YOUR OWN tone. It is absolutely ridiculous to say "I don't like your tone"...scoobiedubie. Now relax and smoke your dubie... I mean 'medication'. I for one, appreciate GLoyales's direct responses to questions asked. Thank you, for that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zekeuyasha Posted April 23, 2013 Author Share Posted April 23, 2013 I think this topic can be closed, actually. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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