Age Old Question

[Rust]

For me subaru's made after the gl/loyale production line ended, are just too far removed from what made the brand.   There are some practical reasons also.  Being exempt from emissions, inspections, and lower taxes and insurance rates are some pretty good percs for driving a 25 year old car.    

[88wacaroo]

I"m with Rust and Others on the program of the Old Gens Being The SHIZZNIT....We all know they are underpowered {Not Gutless Though  } You can Relentlessly beat them and they don"t Die {Unless They Don"t Have Oil!!} Insure.& Tags Are Cheap, On Top Of Being Super EASY And CHEAP To FIX {$13.For A Oil Pump Kit-EA81s Lovin It} And Character & Class!! I was Downtown at a stoplight and I saw a New Mitzu. And A New Subie..Both the same color Silver and the only Way I told them Apart was the Badges-They were lookin at Zumie {EA81 Hatchie} and I sorta felt sorry for those guys cars-Looked the same  Oh well...I Don"t have a Car Payment    Peace

[zukiru]

My Co worker was astonished at me the other day. They all know how much i love my two ea82 cars. He teased me that i would trade them both for a WRX. I flatly declined the fictional offer. I can totally afford to own a wrx. I would just rather drive my XT.

[turbosubarubrat]

what ever happened to this slogin?

 

"SUBARU

Inexpensive. And

built to stay that way."

 

i've been in a few new subaru's and they just dont have the right fill from me. maybe because i grew up riding in ea82 wagons or becsause i dont like any car after the 80's from all the newer cars looking alike to me. this is why im into the old gens i plan on adding oil to and driving my 85 brat until the bumpers rust off which will take a long time because i have a custom rear bumper with built in hitch and factory winch bumper (hopefully it wont ever rust out) but first i need to finish building it . plus the fact i got my dad into the first and second gen stuff now because i suckered him into getting 6 subaru's in 3 years

 

 

[Gloyale]

We sold my GF's low mile, 2002 Forrester for $6500 and got her a really clean 91 Loyale body for $400 bucks.

 

4 new Struts, Brakes, Wheelbearings....2 Balljoints, axles, tierods......A new clutch.....and oh yeah, an EJ18 from a 94 Impreza with new t-belt, WP, idlers, and all seals.....later.  (About $2200 total)

 

With almost entirely new running gear, she's got a more dependable, cheaper to insure, better gas mileage, with almost excactly as much room and utility, plus a car with classic style.

 

We put the $4000 + left over into other projects and needs for our family.

[idosubaru]

good points.  i think if they all didn't rust away out here it would be far more appealing. my last two XT6's came from texas and california.  the litany of cheap parts i've amassed over the years has the possibility of many inexpensive miles.

 

 

We, an EJ18 from a 94 Impreza with new t-belt, WP, idlers,

got a  mpg reading yet?  i have an XT and FWD EJ trans and EJ18 i'd like to drop in it.....

[ShawnW]

All great points but I am not asking why we like the old ones as much as I am asking why do we convert a ea81 powered car for example to be an EJ22 powered car.  I am saying-sure the engine is a great upgrade but why not start with the car and its stock engine and put the items it lacks from the old school cars into it instead of the other way around.  

 

1984 Subaru GL Wagon

1994 Subaru Impreza Wagon

 

Same cost to insure for most drivers.  Frankly almost any Subaru for liability only insurance-the newer the car the cheaper it is.  Adding Airbags and the newer crash safety makes your insurance decrease.  

 

The list of things you get with the new gen car without "upgrading" it is astonishing.

 

Rear disc brakes-quite often standard.

Stereo

Interior is quieter

Seat comfort

Rear cargo room

Spare tire location could be argued but I like it under the hood.  

15"+ wheels and 5x100 bolt pattern

Power steering 

The handling!  The newer cars really handle much better.  Torsion bar rear suspension isn't exactly great.

A/C that works and is 134A on 1994 and up cars.

60/40 Split rear fold down seat instead of 1 piece.

 

You guys know I have built some really cool old 80's wagons over the years and sold them or upgraded them for customers.  They are great and I love them but I still don't quite understand the logic of doing all these upgrades-spending the time and money to put 90's technology into an 80's car instead of starting with the 90's technology and putting a little of the 80's into it instead.  

 

We cry at the cost of a dual range trans from Australia or somewhere like that for an EJ powered car/bellhousing type but if you spent what you do on the 2.2/2.5 swap in an old car on a transmission and put it in an Impreza you would have a pretty awesome car.

 

I totally understand the nostalgia argument.  And the rust free pretty 80's body is a thing of beauty but how long does it stay that way.  The 80's cars rust out so fast-much faster than a comparable 90's car.

 

Worse yet-put all this work into it and have someone hit you and total the car.  Getting an insurance settlement on the car is often quite a battle if its 30 years old.  

[ferox]

"I still don't quite understand the logic of doing all these upgrades"

 

Logic?...there's your problem right there.  For some of us, the answer to the question, what do you want to drive?, is an 80's Subaru that has been upgraded with 90's gear.  I like to build my stuff, so I know it inside and out, but beyond that I don't know if logic plays a substantial role.  If everyone made automotive choices based on logic, the automotive world would be a very boring place.

[Loyale 2.7 Turbo]

... but I am not asking why we like the old ones as much as I am asking why do we convert a ea81 powered car for example to be an EJ22 powered car...  

 

Maybe the Answer is: Fun!

 

Take an Old Boxy 80's car which already is Much more Fun to Drive than any newer car, and Over-Power it; the Result is a pretty Scary Funnier Car to Drive, plus the Swap is a Great and very entertaining Mechanical Excercise; somehow about to be a true artwork of craftmanship; while modding a New car which already has those features, isn't Fun at all...

 

Kind Regards.

[ShawnW]

Ok.  Ill drop it.  I think I still made my point but for fun is a great reason.

[thedoctor]

Now that you mention it, my local vintage Subaru guru has been trying to move me up a decade for quite awhile now. But he says not too far because of "interference" engines that came in the laster 90's. I never had time to research that. All I know is maybe a '96 is better than a '99 for someone like me trying to keep body and Soobie together for at least 400K.

 

Then there's style. Which of the 90's offers the beauty of an '83? That's an actual question. Once I started seeing pizza box edges on fenders, I stopped paying attention. I know the Outbacks are cool looking, but they are way in the future.

 

And when do rain gutters disappear. I like my Quick n Easy roof racks. See photo.

[man on the moon]

It's ok Shawn. The primary sentiment seems to be "have fun building and tweaking". For older gen' fans, that means an older cars. Ask the same question to people who've built a variety of newer gen' rigs, and you'll probably get the same answer but with "newer gen" inserted. It's fun, and a good mental exercise as TheLoyale mentioned--the year and model is up to the individual, as long as a good time is had. I'll still come ooh and ahh over a newer car (or even a truck, like you have) just as much as some of those sweet older Brat's in your parking lot

[spazomatic]

I just like a car with character. Something old and aesthetically challenged that you just dont have to worry about. My 84 doesnt have much in the way of new car upgrades (except seats, and a cd player with better/more speakers) and though id like more ponies underhood, i dont have any immediate plans to swap an EJ motor.

My baja I kindof worry about, cuz its still a nice car. Door dings and offroading damage kinda bother me. The 84? Who cares!

Drive it like a rented mule, smile and dont worry.

[mikaleda]

All great points but I am not asking why we like the old ones as much as I am asking why do we convert a ea81 powered car for example to be an EJ22 powered car. I am saying-sure the engine is a great upgrade but why not start with the car and its stock engine and put the items it lacks from the old school cars into it instead of the other way around.

 

1984 Subaru GL Wagon

1994 Subaru Impreza Wagon

 

Same cost to insure for most drivers. Frankly almost any Subaru for liability only insurance-the newer the car the cheaper it is. Adding Airbags and the newer crash safety makes your insurance decrease.

 

The list of things you get with the new gen car without "upgrading" it is astonishing.

 

Rear disc brakes-quite often standard.

Stereo

Interior is quieter

Seat comfort

Rear cargo room

Spare tire location could be argued but I like it under the hood.

15"+ wheels and 5x100 bolt pattern

Power steering

The handling! The newer cars really handle much better. Torsion bar rear suspension isn't exactly great.

A/C that works and is 134A on 1994 and up cars.

60/40 Split rear fold down seat instead of 1 piece.

 

You guys know I have built some really cool old 80's wagons over the years and sold them or upgraded them for customers. They are great and I love them but I still don't quite understand the logic of doing all these upgrades-spending the time and money to put 90's technology into an 80's car instead of starting with the 90's technology and putting a little of the 80's into it instead.

 

We cry at the cost of a dual range trans from Australia or somewhere like that for an EJ powered car/bellhousing type but if you spent what you do on the 2.2/2.5 swap in an old car on a transmission and put it in an Impreza you would have a pretty awesome car.

 

I totally understand the nostalgia argument. And the rust free pretty 80's body is a thing of beauty but how long does it stay that way. The 80's cars rust out so fast-much faster than a comparable 90's car.

 

Worse yet-put all this work into it and have someone hit you and total the car. Getting an insurance settlement on the car is often quite a battle if its 30 years old.

Sounds to me like your talking rally car in wich case everything you mention would be better, but for me the brakes arn't a big deal, I'm into mudding, the mud will stop you faster than your brakes can as for the tortion bar suspension, its not great for handling but is great for mudding because there is no lower control arm to get caught on stuff so it is better for my purposes then the newer style suspension. As for why I don't like the ej swap, as I said before I love the older cars because of simplicity the only thing electronic I want on my car is my distributor, I can work with less power. I used to take my Suzuki 1.3l stock running 235-75-r15's through mud holes that people with their v8's wouldn't go near, it's all about weight and knowing how to drive your car, I was always told suzukies are easy to flip, but I never had a problem cause I knew what I was doing, not that I never got it two wheels though

 

Oh and with the right gearing you'll get the power you need out of any size engine, not good for rallying, but good for mudding

Edited April 26, 2013 by mikaleda

[mikaleda]

Oh and in north Idaho your ac is 4x60 four windows down going 60 mph

[ivans imports]

I criused my 79 brat thru town and man it turns heads noone has even seen one round here in ten years it feels good to drive somting none has ! Have seen lots of retro cars coming back but very few have retro subarus. And goto love ripen past plasticy cars on the hyway in good old subaru iron !

[Gloyale]

 

Rear disc brakes-quite often standard.

Stereo

Interior is quieter

Seat comfort

Rear cargo room

Spare tire location could be argued but I like it under the hood.  

15"+ wheels and 5x100 bolt pattern

Power steering 

The handling!  The newer cars really handle much better.  Torsion bar rear suspension isn't exactly great.

A/C that works and is 134A on 1994 and up cars.

60/40 Split rear fold down seat instead of 1 piece.

 

 

My "nice" EA81 car has heated Outback seats, a clarion six speaker stereo, A/C, Sunroof, Power windows, Power steering, and a folddown rear pass through to the trunk (84 4wd Sedan, 92 Turbo sedan rear seat.)

 

As for wagons, I don't like the Impreza cargo area.  It doesn't have a flat trunk floor all the way to the opening.  Forresters and Legacies are better in this area, but really don't have much more room than a EA82 car.  I guess they do have a bit more than the EA81's.  But then we are back to the weight issue.  Even an Impreza is about 650lbs heavier than a EA82, about 850lbs heavier than a EA81 wagon.  That's a pretty big chunk of extra weight to haul around.

 

And for insurance.  It may vary state to state, but here in Oregon the older the cheaper.  We compared liability only on my GF's old forrester, and the "new" loyale.  $72 dollars saavings every 6 months.  And because it's not a $5000+ "asset" we have to protect, we don't need the comprehensive and collision which is about $300 less every six months.  You can't afford not to have collision on a newer car whereas the old loyale, if someone hits it, get another body and shove all the good parts in there.

[drake13]

I just got my 93 loyale for 750 bucks. Living in Wisconsin winters are hell, I have the 4wd 5 speed wagon, everyone I know who knows anything about subie's is jealous of it. A guy on my fire department who has a Impreza wagon and WRX STI offered me 1500 already because he knows how well they handle in the snow

[coxy]

It would be interesting to read this thread if for instance they had made a Loyale version Brat and a Forester version Brat but I still believe that people would have both if they could.

 

Rust the bugbear of owners of all cars is relative considering some of the project repairs that have been on the site over the years,Someplace like here in Australia people throw away things for rust that in say the East Coast of the US and the UK will be considered a good basis for a rebuild.

 

Take the UK for instance because of all the Salt on the roads there they do not flinch in replacing inner and outer sills,Floorpans guards etc because if they shy away from such an effort they would have no old cars at all.

 

60's ,70's and 80's Cars that we may now consider not worth the effort we will likely in 10 or 20 years time regret not saving and have decided that the repairs needed were not actually that bad it is all about perception and the same will occurr in 20 years time for the new gen models but they will be harder to repair because of all the plastic as it does not last forever and is harder to repair to a decent standard.

 

Therefore as most of us have recognised it is all about what means something to you and most importantly something that was not designed to be used for 10 years and thrown away.

 

 

I rebuilt a  Datsun 180B (610) for a customer used an Z22 bottom end L series cylinder head,full body work and retrim,then their new son arrived and was very sick for 18 months back and forth to Hospital and that car never let them down once.

It will never be sold and will be given to the Son on his 21st Birthday things such as that cannot be quantified by Logic it is all about emotional ties or we would all ditch our Grandmothers because they are too old and out of date I think sums things up perfectly.

 

When considering just how few years many newer cars last before they become not financially viable to fix (Modern Auto's anyone) then the so called green aspect of modern vehicles is basically BS considering all the recources and energy required to manufacture them in the first place and that a decade later many have gone but the earlier ones still soldier on.

 

Plus as Jezzek said FUN seems to have gone missing in so much modern stuff not just cars or wheelers.

Edited April 27, 2013 by coxy

[zukiru]

"drive something noone else has" this is me and my XT and now my loyale. You don't see them every day here, or ever for that matter...

 

But to be fair. I haven't done any of the upgrades to them.... Yet.

 

i don't see much new Gen stuff here either though.

Mostly see Altima Camry and Chevy 5.3 crap.

[apintonut]

ill keep it simple 

you can say 

built NOT bought 

money cant buy pride 

[apintonut]

p.s. replicated not duplicated (there only one)

[l75eya]

Been skimming through here; good points across the board.

Too sleepy to say much but one thing that touches on jeszek's point of it being fun;

 

My brother has a 1.8 fwd 94 Impreza. It rides great, handles great, looks good with the snowflake rims on it. It will cruise at 100 all day with no complaints. My point here is that
Cruising at 75 in the Impreza is a comforting...smooth thing...
Cruising at 75 in the Loyale, however, is an adrenaline rush sensation.
In newer cars, when you're driving at speed, you don't really notice. In the older cars, when you're doing 75 it really feels like you're hauling serious rump roast.

That's my quick point. Buenos noche.

[Uberoo]

The old gen stuff is smaller width and length wise while offering more ground clearance,So right off the bat its a better starting point for an offroad vehicle.Swap in a EJ22 and it will be faster than the EJ series car it came out of.Sure it might need some driveline upgrades but in the end A EA vehicle will be more capable than a comparable EJ vehicle with similar mods.The only possible exception would be the fact that you can put rally suspension under a EJ vehicle and it will be way stronger than anything that could be retrofitted to a EA.

 

Then again my EA81 hatch has parts from just about every subaru generation newer than it.EA82 suspension,EA82 DR 5 speed,EJ22,Legacy based rear axles,4.11 diffs from a legacy....

[NWSubie]

I have both my 80 wagon and my 98 impreza, the 80 does most of my town driving and fishing trips up in the mountains the impreza is for long trips and really hot days (ac is nice sometimes) I did do the ej swap to the 80 because it is nice to be able to get her moving when i need to and I tow my camping trailer with it. Just need to get the camber issue fixed since its lifted 4" it can be kinda tricky on wet roads on cornners. But I guess having a taste on both world is fun. The old subset do great on the wheeling trails as long as I stay out of the huge hole the big Chevys make haha since I don't really like flooding the inside of the car wich has happened to me a few times. Personally i feel it's a shame to crush the old sues unless it has been wrecked so bad that it's done for. I have crushed a few of them but not before taking damn near every usable part off of them to feed my old beast haha. I say keep your old sure and if you have to have the new one just have two lol. If I had a lot of property I would probably have quite a few since they are so cheap but who knows how much longer the old gens will be around.