ea81 swap

[risonm92]

Closed thanks for all the ideas and help

Edited May 6, 2013 by risonm92

[mikaleda]

your going to have to fabricate a different fuel pump and in tank fuel pickup, an 80 fuel pump would probably be the easiest fabrication since it splices into the fuel line under the hood, you'll have to make a gas pickup where the old fuel pump is. your going to need to wire the fuel pump so that it only comes on with the engine running, running it with a relay with the negative of the relay going through an oil light sender would work for this. 

an ea81 with a weber would help simplify things.

that is all i can think of since i am fairly unfamiliar with the loyals.

[Gloyale]

your going to have to fabricate a different fuel pump and in tank fuel pickup, an 80 fuel pump would probably be the easiest fabrication since it splices into the fuel line under the hood, you'll have to make a gas pickup where the old fuel pump is. your going to need to wire the fuel pump so that it only comes on with the engine running, running it with a relay with the negative of the relay going through an oil light sender would work for this. 

an ea81 with a weber would help simplify things.

that is all i can think of since i am fairly unfamiliar with the loyals.

 

An EA81 with any carbuerator would be about the same work.

 

He would absolutle not need to add a pickup to the tank.  And no need to splice in a fuel pump in the engine bay.  A low pressure pump can be added right where the EFI pump lives now.  Fuel pump wiring could be a standard subaru Fuel Pump control unit.  Give it 12v Batt, 12v IG. ground and a tach signal.  Then run the control wire to the pump.  I know, sounds complicated but it's a super simple device.

 

Grounding a pump control through the Oil Light switch would turn the pump OFF when the engine is running......unless you use a different switch.

 

NOW......after addressing that......there is an alternate way.

 

The Loyale intake manifold, and entire fueling system will bolt right onto an EA81.  The EA81 disty needs modified as per GD's SPFI swap right up.  The IAC needs flipped.  After that bolt it on.

 

Use an EA82 water pump and extension tube and use all EA82 radiator hoses.

 

Power steering is the one issue you may run into.  Pump might need relocated, or use an EA81 power steering pump.

[mikaleda]

you misunderstand me, i said to run a relay with the negative side of the relay to the oil light switch, constant positive to the positive side of the coil side of the relay and the negative to the oil light sender to activate the coil in the relay turning the relay on. 

a weber would delete the air suction system and would eliminate a lot of vacuum lines.

as for swaping the intake onto the ea81 block, thats something i wasnt aware of, but i think the reason for the swap could be to do with the ea82 intake, faulty injectors or sensors, since this is unknown i would assume the whole engine is going in.

i was unaware they made a low psi pump that would fit in tank

oh and for using the ea81 fuel control box, good luck finding a good one and their $80+ new or you could use a relay

Edited May 4, 2013 by mikaleda

[risonm92]

I really appreciate all the info as it sits now im working on diagnosing if my ea82 will need rebuilt or just timing belts and I have talked to alot of Subaru owners and they've all said it isn't worth rebuilding one of those engines so just checking my options.

[Gloyale]

you misunderstand me, i said to run a relay with the negative side of the relay to the oil light switch, constant positive to the positive side of the coil side of the relay and the negative to the oil light sender to activate the coil in the relay turning the relay on. 

a weber would delete the air suction system and would eliminate a lot of vacuum lines.

as for swaping the intake onto the ea81 block, thats something i wasnt aware of, but i think the reason for the swap could be to do with the ea82 intake, faulty injectors or sensors, since this is unknown i would assume the whole engine is going in.

i was unaware they made a low psi pump that would fit in tank

oh and for using the ea81 fuel control box, good luck finding a good one and their $80+ new or you could use a relay

 

Again.  The OIl pressure switch connects to ground when there is no oil pressure.  Opens (turns off light) when engine is running.  Will not work to control fuel pump.

 

Also, the fuel pumps are not in the tank.  None of them on EA82 or EA81 cars.  They are under the car, in front of the rear wheel well passenger side.

 

All carbed EA81 and EA82 cars used the FPCU.  They aren't hard to find at all.  I've got litterally dozens of them.  Even the Fuel injected loyales with auto seatbelts also used them, to tell the seatbelt timer wether the car was running or not.

 

This is all irrelavent because swapping an FI car to carbed is a downgrade.  The FI systems are super simple, easy to replace the few things that can fail.

 

To the OP.  I would highly recommend keeping the EA82 engine.  Do a timing belt job, reseal the engine so it doesn't leak, and keep driving it.  Swapping to an EA81 is a downgrade unless you have an extreme aversion to OHC engines.

[NorthWet]

..I have talked to alot of Subaru owners and they've all said it isn't worth rebuilding one of those engines so just checking my options.

Ah...

 

There is a difference between "not being worth rebuilding" and it being pointless to rebuild one.

 

Unless you have a bad bearing on the crankshaft, there is no point in splitting the cases.  And if there is a bad bearing, there is really no point in splitting the cases: just get a replacement engine.

 

Unless you have a bad bearing, everything else is a relatively simple fix.  Certainly simpler than a swap between engine generations.

[mikaleda]

Again.  The OIl pressure switch connects to ground when there is no oil pressure.  Opens (turns off light) when engine is running.  Will not work to control fuel pump.

 

I must be forgetting a step, there is a way to run it with a relay and the oil light sending unit.

[Gloyale]

I must be forgetting a step, there is a way to run it with a relay and the oil light sending unit.

 

Power from the key to positve of pump.

 

And a relay that has a normally closed(87a), passing the ground though to the pump.  Ground the coil side relay through the OP switch, so the pump runs only when the light is out. 

 

If the light goes on (grounded) then it will open the relay turning off the pump.

 

This could be done, but it's a weird workaround

[mikaleda]

Power from the key to positve of pump.

 

And a relay that has a normally closed(87a), passing the ground though to the pump.  Ground the coil side relay through the OP switch, so the pump runs only when the light is out. 

 

If the light goes on (grounded) then it will open the relay turning off the pump.

 

This could be done, but it's a weird workaround

Hmmm, I'm going to have to look up the tread I saw this setup in. I could have swore it was a better work around.

[mikaleda]

Here is a quote from gd in the tread I was thinking of,

Run a single wire to the oil pressure switch - plumbed into where the sending unit threads into the oil pump. Attach the wire to one side of the switch and attach the other side of the switch to a good ground (anything nearby that's metal).

 

At the rev sensor plug - take your incoming 12v hot lead and run that to both the coil and contact side of a 30A relay. Use the wire coming from the pressure switch for the coil ground. On the other side of the relay contact attach your fuel pump power wire and choke power wire.

 

When the oil pressure trips the switch, it will complete the ground to the relay coil and power both the fuel pump and the choke.

 

GD

I think I know what the differance is I was thinking oil light sender, but I should have been thinking oil pressure sender, wich would be the opposite. Edited May 4, 2013 by mikaleda

[risonm92]

I don't care if it's OHV or not. I'll be honest this is my first Subaru and I have read and been told the ea82s are junk so im just trying to find what the best thing would be for me to do as in swap or rebuild.

[mikaleda]

Why not swap it out with another ea82? That would be easy enogh, I've seen plenty of happy people with ea82 subies.

[NorthWet]

The EA82s are not junk.  They are engines built for an economy car, and they have strengths and weaknesses.  They are not powerhouses, but if properly maintained, they can last nearly forever.

[Gloyale]

 

Edited May 5, 2013 by Gloyale

[Gloyale]

Here is a quote from gd in the tread I was thinking of,

I think I know what the differance is I was thinking oil light sender, but I should have been thinking oil pressure sender, wich would be the opposite.

 

 

 

 

 

I seldom question GD, but in this case his

description of how to do this is wrong.  First off, there is on;y one

wire at the sender so you can't run one wire to ground and then

completing the circuit through the OP switch?

 

Second, you cannot "ground" the relay coil through the sender.  It ALWAYS has some resitance to ground, so it will always ground the coil.

 

Besides, Loyales don't have a gauge (ussually)

 

Like I said.....you would need to use a relay that opens when the light goes on, and closes to complete the circuit through the OP switch when the light goes out.  A common GM/Bosch with 85/86 for coil, 30 connects to 87a when "off", connects to 87 when "on".  SO you would run the12v to the 85 and 30 terminals, run the OP switch wire to the 86, and power out to the pump to 30.  When "off" 12 v will run through the 30 to the 87a and power pump.  When "on" (light on) the 30 will connect to 87(nothing, pump off)

 

GM's and others that use the OP as a fuel pump safety use a switch with 3 poles.....one for the light, and 2 that complete a seperate path for either the ground, or 12v....through the switch. 2 seperate ciruits in those switches.

Edited May 5, 2013 by Gloyale

[86BRATMAN]

why instead of all this other stuff wouldn't we recommend swapping the spfi to the ea81 and calling it a day?

[NorthWet]

why instead of all this other stuff wouldn't we recommend swapping the spfi to the ea81 and calling it a day?

This was suggested in Post #3.

 

A more rational option, IMHO, was Post  #7.

[WoodsWagon]

Why all the irrelevant arguing over fuel pump wiring? Gloyale and Mikaleda, you're really doing nothing but adding confusion to a thread asked by a newbie who's not being helped at all by your relay debate.

 

RisonM92:

What makes you think the engine in your Loyale needs replacing or repair? Broken timing belts don't do any internal damage, it's a non-interference engine. They all leak oil, most of them have lifter tick, and the timing belts break if you don't do them every 60k, but they are dead reliable engines.You can abuse the hell out of them and they'll take it because they don't make enough power to hurt themselves. I have thrashed the spoob out of a bunch of them.

 

The turbo EA82's are the junk ones. The extra heat, complexity, and component stress from the turbo pushes them over the edge.

 

Edit:

Ahh, I read one of your other threads on diagnosis. Could you keep to one thread instead of starting a bunch of separate ones? It sounds like your compression issues and starting issues are probably due to the stale gas left in the tank. It will gum up valve guides so the valves stick and don't fully close. I have had them stick so bad the rocker arms dropped out inside the head.

Edited May 6, 2013 by WoodsWagon