Master Cylinder or Brakes? 92 Loyale

[Subarocket]

Hi guys. I redid all my brakes a year ago and bled the lines (first timer) and my brakes came out almost non-existent. Pedal to the floor and no action. The garage rebled my brakes and it was much better but they weren't terribly strong. Before me changing them, the pedal would not got to the floor like this (the brakes were worn badly but pedal travel and strength was normal).

 

A year later of having quirky brakes that I have managed fine, another garage tells me the master cylinder is gone. The brakes are definitely worse now. 1st pump typically gets nothing, second pump is fine. Pedal travels to the floor the first time and the second time when it engages, the pedal travel seems right.

 

The garage says he can't find a master cylinder. A lot of chatter on here says the MC hardly goes. 

 

Any thoughts? Thanks

[MilesFox]

First i would say that there may be air in the system.

 

There may be so if the brakes were not bled in a dual diagonal matter. It is possible there is air in the rear line, as in a manual trans car, it helps to keep the clutch depressed to bleed around the hill holder.

 

The master cylinder can fail as i just had to replace on ein a 95 legacy with 235,000 mi.

 

Try proper bleeding first.

[Gloyale]

If this is a 2wd car or an older EA81 car you will need to adjust out the rear shoes.

 

Jack up a rear wheel so it spins free.  There is a square headed bolt on the bottom center of the backingplate.  Screw it in by 1/4 turn clicks while spinning the wheel.  Stop when the wheel locks, and then back off 2 clicks.  repaeat for other rear.

 

If it's a 4wd EA82 car this doesn't apply, and I would also suspect the MC

[Mykeys Toy]

What he said^^^

  Then start looking at your soft lines at the calipers make sure there isn't a pin hole somewhere.  It could still be the master.. Could also be a dying HH if so equipped.  There are a few things in various shop manuals Chitons/Haynes that may help you diagnose you problem or eliminate specific parts.. More info may help such as year and model of your car.

Edited May 21, 2013 by Mykeys Toy

[drugh]

If you pedal bled the brakes yourself, you could have scored the seals in the MC.

 

The way I have heard it, you move the MC seals further than usual when the pedal is applied to the floor. Any sediment in the MC can score the seals. A way to prevent this scoring is to put a 2x4good under the brake pedal during bleeding to eliminate the last portion of pedal travel.

 

And yes, I learned this the hard way with a 92 loyale. Very similar to your situation a few years back and a new MC fixed it.

[rdweninger]

Do you have to add brake fluid ever? Make sure there are no leaks. Then the rear adjustment as GLoyale said. Then the MC. You can get rebuild kits for the rear wheel cylinders and the front calipers. Not sure on the MC rebuild kit... I've never looked for one.

Are they still sledding up in Golden? Snow level down to 3000' today in the Oregon Cascades... Love it!

[Subarocket]

Thanks for all the awesome replies guys. @rdweninger. I doubt anyone is sledding but you could probably find snow if you wanted. I've been on the coast since April though.

 

I will go through the steps as you guys suggested an see whats up. To add to the fun my car got a good shudder after a garage put in a rename cv axle. Figured it was the axle. Turns out it was my front drivers caliper seizing on the highway. Yay