Water Pump Troubles?

[jj421]

Okay, so about two weeks I swapped my EA82's longblock. It came with a brand new water pump. The first day, I noticed some coolant loss, but it was a combination of bleeding the system, letting coolant pump through every hose, and I didn't fill up the overflow tank. By the second day, she was holding coolant nicely.

 

About a week later, I notice the temp gauge is reading a bit higher than normal (not overheating though). Up until then, I noticed no coolant loss, and I was checking it every day. However, the radiator went dry and there was no coolant in the overflow tank. I noticed no visible leaks. Filled her up and wanted to double check the coolant to make sure.

 

Wasn't noticing any problems, until I turned the car off when I got to work today. As always, I look back at my car when I walk away, haha. But this time, I noticed coolant was dripping pretty fast out the bottom of the car. I crawl underneath, and find it's dripping from the oil pan onto the skidplate onto the ground. Pop the hood, and notice no visible leaks. Completely dry of coolant, but yet it's still dripping out onto the ground.

 

I had to clock on, so I left the car sitting. Nine hours later, I need to get home. First thing I did was adjust the metal pipe that fits in between the driver side radiator hose and the water pump. Adjusted it so it sits better on the water pump. I start adding some coolant, and it starts dripping out the bottom again. Again, no visible leaks.

 

Luckily, I only live 5 minutes from work, so I was able to drive it home. Got home right as the temp gauge reached its normal readings, so it didn't overheat. Turned the car off, and noticed smoke coming out of the grill. Pop the hood and find coolant sprayed around the water pump. At this point, it is NOT dripping coolant on the ground.

 

So anyways, anyone have tips? I searched topics on water pumps, but there aren't many threads about it. Best solution I could find is that new water pumps will do this, especially if there's debris in the cooling system, and it'll eventually fix itself. I can do some work in the morning, but should I just run the car a bit more and see if it fixes it? Oh, I forgot to mention that I've noticed no other problems. No overheating, no coolant in the oil, no oil in the coolant, etc. Here is video of it dripping out, and what happened when I got home:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fs_l8KwI0I4&list=PLWKW712Na2Z5uYMhUIrlkcgGSaNQ8ozGA&index=1

 

Thanks for any help! 

 

1990 Subaru Loyale, EA82 (swapped exactly 400 miles ago, has 116K on the motor, new water pump, longblock)

[turbosubarubrat]

looks like you need a new gasket or tighten the bolts(torque) because it looks like its spraying all the way around the pump when under pressure and is leaking when sitting. it cant be a hole in the hose because in video it appears to be wet all the way around the bottom and you said its all over the place on the front of the engine. i would check the gasket and go from there.

[TomRhere]

Had issue with the O-ring on the supply pipe sealing correctly. Would leak while running, until engine warmed up.

Drained coolant, pulled the pipe, O-ring was good. Put it all back together and filled system. Still leaked.

Wound up actually bending the bracket where the pipe bolts to the engine to get it to seal.

[Indrid cold]

Your right... there are no other hoses in that area... just the water pump.....

 

The fact that it held for a week is interesting... Tom above had to tweek the bracket/alignment as he bolted the tube back into place on that side bracket...  I know of the bracket he wrote of but couldn't see it in your video, I don't have EA-82's at this time, so couldn't go look to compare.  Assure the bracket on the supply tube is secured by a bolt  through bracket to engine block and aligned to prevent it from pushing out or leaking.  On my EA-82, I gently clean the out side of the "O" ring (don't remove as it will probably break) and smear with a silicone vacuum grease... spark plug boot grease is closely related, prior to installation, "O" rings like silicone grease. 

 

sounds more like something came un-done on the water pump... ... bolt wasn't torqued, or over torqued -(stripped out)  As it leaks constantly your dead anyway so it becomes a re-do as that is the most likely cause,  all it will take is time and a $13. gasket to pull water pump.  Noted you run with out T-belt covers which makes this so much simpler..... your half way there.  I looked in my book for torque value but wasn't listed?  I know it isn't much... 

 

Floaties in the coolant won't create a leak but something across the "O" ring or cut in "O" ring may cause a leak... that is a lot of water so leaning towards water pump.  Spray is probably from coolant landing on the T-belts and being tossed around.

 

Let us know what you find as so far were guessing. 

Edited June 2, 2013 by Indrid cold

[jj421]

Well, as of today, I'm 90% sure that the water pump gasket is the problem. I tightened four of the five bolts holding the water pump on (couldn't get to the last one), and they all seemed pretty tight. My Chilton manual says these should be torqued to 7-8 ft-lbs, but my torque wrench doesn't go that low. Not to mention I don't have a 10mm socket that fits on a 1/2" drive, haha. Anyways, I tightened up the bolts, but they weren't loose. So I don't think that was the problem.

 

Here is the supply pipe and bracket. This is the very first thing I suspected when I first saw the leak. Right after I got off of work, I loosened the 12mm nut holding the bracket onto the engine, and I made the pipe fit into the water pump better. It wasn't making great contact, but for the past 400 miles, I haven't noticed any problems with it. So anyways, I moved the pipe so it sealed better. Didn't work.

 

 

 

As you can see, the pipe isn't sitting flush on the water pump. But I noticed coolant on top of the water pump:

 

 

I added a bit of coolant, and almost immediately, I noticed it dripping right underneath the water pump. It was dripping right into the crevice right under the pump, behind a timing belt pulley and a small spring. From there, it drips down to the oil pan and skidplate. It drips into this crevice almost as fast as it drips onto the ground (like in the video).

 

 

 

So, I'm pretty sure the gasket is shot. Maybe I'll replace that o-ring on the supply pipe and the gasket at the same time. Is the water pump gasket a "you should only buy it from the dealership" kind of gasket? Is RTV necessary or a good idea for the water pump gasket? Is there a specific name or part number for the o-ring?

Edited June 2, 2013 by jj421

[jj421]

Alright, well I ordered a gasket and took off the water pump. Old gasket looked okay, although there were a couple spots that might have caused a leak, but nothing major. The o-ring looked to be in good shape. Went ahead and scraped all the old gasket material off (my least favorite thing to do when working on cars), and now she's ready for the new gasket. The new gasket should be in tomorrow. Bought some blue RTV, and going to use that since it was used on the old gasket. Not sure if I need to RTV the bolts though. It looks like there was some RTV on the bolts already.

[scoobiedubie]

You may have received the defective water pump with a crack in it, that I returned to Rock Auto.

[MR_Loyale]

I had a similar situation with my Loyale. Fill the system with coolant(overflow tank to spec), start the engine, open the hood and manually rev the engine by pulling the throttle. Watch for any leaks when revving the engine. I had a leaking turbo bypass hose (for engines without turbos, this goes from the thermostat housing into the block, it is about 5 inches long 1/4" tubing or so. ) it would only leak under engine load when the pressure increased. The coolant would pool on the block and then when I come to a stop it is dripping down the engine seemingly from nowhere. Under engine rev, it pissed out coolant like a three yr old wetting his britches.

 

Here is the pic:

 

 

Hope this helps.

Edited June 3, 2013 by MR_Loyale

[jj421]

That proves my point even more, as to why I do work myself. I have no idea where the pump was bought from, but I'll take some pictures of it. I haven't noticed any cracks, but I haven't really taken a good look at it. Maybe you can see something I can't. I bought the engine from Subruise, and I'm assuming he was the one who replaced the water pump. I sent him a text asking if he was the one that installed it, but I haven't heard from him since I sent that text almost 30 hours ago. Maybe he'll chime in if he's reading this.

 

Mr Loyale, I've already replaced that hose. When my old engine "died," that's the first thing I replaced. I have a new hose and new clamps there. I think that was the problem with my old engine, but I replaced the TBI gasket at the same time, which let coolant into the cylinders which led me to believe the heads were cracked. Ergo, I swapped the motor, only to find out having a TBI gasket caused major leakage. Lots of details in my thread, "Random Coolant Leak." Long story short, I replaced that hose, haha. Plus, the coolant is visibly leaking from the water pump, and puddling below it. I didn't even need to run the engine before it started leaking.

[jj421]

Okay, so here's some pictures of the pump. I looked closely, and I can't see any cracks. Nothing popped out at me, but then again, it's the first time I've seen a water pump outside of an engine.  Let me know if you guys see anything on it, but to me, it looks intact.

 

 

 

 

 

scoobiedubie, if there's a way to match these to the water pump you returned, that'd be great. I cannot match these numbers to part numbers on O'Reilly's site nor RockAuto's.

 

 

[nobangmycar]

I'd be fitting a new water pump and gasket.  Water pumps are pretty cheap (well at least they are over here) and are certainly a lot cheaper than a rebuild.  I wouldn't take any chances with cooling systems.  The GMB part number for the pump is GWSU-11A but you seem to have that sorted in another brand.  I work in aftermarket auto parts here and I wouldn't fit anything that wasn't japanese made because I have seen my fair share of chinese rubbish fail.  Especially water pumps.  I've found it's a case of get what you pay for.  Can you tell me what you pay for a new pump there so I can compare prices with NZ?  I'm quite interested to see.  You should have to tighten the bolts too far to seal the gasket either, seems a bit odd.  Is it flat, square, and flush?  I always RTV the gasket on both sides too, although I shouldn't have to.  I'm also good at snapping bolts, especially little ones.

[jj421]

I currently can't afford a new pump, haha. I dumped every dime I had into purchasing the engine, since I didn't expect to be replacing anything on the engine for a few years.

 

A brand new water pump would run me about $50 USD at my local auto parts store. Took a closer look, and found that the product image on O'Reilly's site has PH -1682 on it, which is what is on my pump. So I believe I have an Import Direct water pump (part #CP161). It says it's built new, not remanufactured.

 

 

My water pump does sit flat and flush. I'll just pick up the new gasket, put some RTV on it, put it on, let it sit for a day, tighten bolts again, and start adding coolant. Hopefully it won't leak, but you never know. Hey, on the bright side, this gives me an opportunity to paint my alternator brackets red. 

[rdweninger]

I had the pipe leak at the oring in Year 2000. I used blue rtv around the oring and it is still not leaking to this day. That's 13 years.

If you do decide to replace the water pump... go with Japenese made. Aisan brand is one of them. Just know if you have the 105mm or the 110mm before you order.

[jj421]

Cool, I'll put some RTV around the o-ring when I put it back on. It looked to be in good shape, and was in there pretty snug. The leak was coming from the bottom of the water pump, and there weere no wet spots near that pipe. But I guess it never hurts to take extra precautions.

 

I hope I don't need to order a new pump. It'd be one thing if I could get money back for this pump, but I can't.

 

EDIT:

 

I picked up the gasket and installed it. The water pump is back on my car. I put a little RTV on the rubber o-ring, but not a lot. Gasket looks like it is on flat. Tightened the bolts in the star formation, like you would with lug nuts. I am using my 1/4" ratchet to tighten them, because once I can't turn the bolts anymore, they're torqued perfectly. When I get back from class this evening, I'll double check the bolts and put everything back together. I guess the only thing to do now is wait until tomorrow morning.

Edited June 3, 2013 by jj421

[TomRhere]

A Gates 28466 hose is a "cut to fit" replacement for the 90* hose off the pump for the heater line. I would replace that also.

That hose works for both the EA81 and EA82 engines.

[jj421]

Aha, a little late for that. Already put everything back together. Can't wait until tomorrow to see if it leaks. I have a feeling it won't seal for some extraterrestrial reason, but I'll just have to wait and see. The majority of my coolant lines are in good shape (no cracks). But I'll probably end up replacing all the rubber in my engine sometime in the near future.

[Flowmastered87GL]

There is also a small coolant line that I seem to recall comes out the top of the block and into the bottom of the intake manifold.  Its hidden quite well, but it has failed on more than one of my past GL's

[jj421]

I believe you're talking about the small line going to/from the block and thermostat housing. That's the only one I can think of, and like I said above, I already replaced that line.

 

Again, it is visibly leaking from the bottom of the water pump. It has to be a problem with the pump because if another coolant line was leaking, I would see wet spots or something, but I don't. I'll let you know how the gasket goes tomorrow morning.

[nobangmycar]

aaaaaaaand?  How did it work out?

[ivans imports]

the aftermarket wp gaskets are very poor fitt i like the subaru one is way better and just say no to cheap pumps mind you it whouldent be a ea82 if it wasent leaking

[jj421]

Well, I started adding coolant and it was going fine. However, it eventually started leaking again, at about the same rate. Only difference now is, I cannot see it leaking when I'm looking above my engine. I cannot see it leaking from the water pump nor anywhere else. However, it's still rapidly dripping off the oil pan and skidplate. The tensioner pulley right underneath the water pump is wet with coolant though, so I believe my the water pump is cracked or faulty somehow. Keep in mind that the pulley is right underneath the pump itself, not the gasket. If the gasket is leaking, that pulley shouldn't be wet.

 

I'm not very happy about this, haha. Now I can't drive my car until Saturday, because I don't have the money to buy the part today. I can't exchange the old pump, because I don't have a receipt for it. So now I have to spend $50 (at least) on a new pump. A dealership pump will cost me $100, and I definitely don't have the money for that.

Edited June 4, 2013 by jj421

[capn_r]

The mechanical seal is probably slobbering out the weep hole. Is there a chemical that may somewhat revive those seals?

[rdweninger]

Once the seal goes bad, the coolant will leak out the weep hole.  At this point, the bearing has been compromised.   So, when you see coolant coming out the weep hole.... you should probably get a new Japenese made water pump.

And replace the 90 degree hose.  Maybe heater hoses, also (they're cheap and will last 100,000 miles)  Flush the system, clean the radiator, make sure you have a Subaru thermostat.  I also pulled the plugs on the bottom of the heads to drain the water and crap that settles there.  I think it's on the head... maybe block.   Sorry, I don't quite remember... because I redid the entire cooling system 15 years ago and there are still no leaks.   Ya... I'm that good!  Ha. 

Wait... knock on wood!

[l75eya]

 

because I redid the entire cooling system 15 years ago and there are still no leaks.   Ya... I'm that good!  Ha.

 

 

 

rdweninger's vehicle developed a freak coolant leak 5 seconds after this statement was made.

 

 

JJ I've been dealing with almost an IDENTICAL problem with the Loyale for about ...a good year or so now. I just keep topping it up.

 

I'd tear into it and reseal the water pump and all that, but the front end of the car got crunched about a year ago (not reason for leak. Had put a new water-pump in the very day before the crunch) and....well....

I don't think it's going to be particularly easy to get all that stuff apart and back in again

 

[Caboobaroo]

If you can visibly see no hole in a hose and you've replaced the gasket, I'm willing to bet its a bad water pump. I have seen cheap new ones leak straight out of the box. I might have an old water pump sitting around here you could try but I wouldn't run it myself...