Legacy Outback 1997 engine knock

[Zimmyzoq]

I'm living in CO for a little over a year and bought a cheaper Subaru (poor student!) - 1997 Legacy outback auto with 183,000 on the clock. Had it inspected when I purchased and service records were ok.

 

It now has 205,000 and has recently developed an engine knock. I know this is high mileage so I'm getting concerned its something serious. I did an oil change at just under 200,000.

 

After hearing this a knock at startup and now continuing through most rev ranges (dont think its piston slap as it doesn't die off), I put a full synthetic 5-30 oil in with a new filter. Since the oil change I have noticed a significant loss of power, mainly in 1st gear. It basically revs right up and changes into second without any power.

 

Another strange noise I've noticed is when the engine is turned off I hear something like a ball nearing rattling around for ~5 sec.

 

I've done a lot of reading and wondering if it could be one of the following (or a combination):

- rod bearing

- knock sensor

- cluch (no power)

- spark plugs and wires

 

Any insight would be hugely appreciated.

 

My gut feeling is that with this many miles it might cost upward of 1000 to repair. I have a little working knowledge but few tools so would most likely have to have it repaired at a service center.

 

Thanks, Zach

[ivans imports]

Timing belt coged idler pully or trans mainshaft berring take off oil fillter dump it into clean bin and see if any meatal in it any meatal then on its way out if clean posibly somthing else. Do a manual oil preshure check min 10 psi hot at idle also time how long oil light takes to turn off should be of in one second or less

[Zimmyzoq]

Ok ill check for metal in filter tonight. If there is any will it just be sitting inside near the thread or will I have to cut it open? Someone else suggested TB idler pulley so ill have a look at that too. Oil light only stays on briefly

[idosubaru]

1.  rod bearings are shot

2.  timing belt tensioner or pulleys are shot

 

#2 is easy, check that immediately.  interference engine so if a pulley or tensioner fails completely you'll have internal engine damage.

 

#1 means you need a new engine or engine block.  an EJ18 or EJ22 swap would be the cheapest.  i picked up an EJ18 for $150 with only 100,000 miles and warranty, 60,000 miles later it's been a great investment.

[Zimmyzoq]

Ok - so say I need an new engine and have a bunch of time on my hands and a friend with a garage, is this the type of thing I could get done with the help of a friend over a few weeks? Or am I kidding myself and should just cut my losses?

[86BRATMAN]

I've swapped these engines in one day before. The key is to know what you're facing and have everything you need ready to go.

[Zimmyzoq]

So I managed to drive home from the bus station yesterday - was a bit worried I wouldn't make it! The engine know hadn't gotten any louder/more frequent, however the power was terrible; lots of revving and mot really going anywhere. I tried to take it very easy. I'm thinking/hoping this is now sounding more like a tb issue rather than something in the engine block. Ill have a look at the tensioner tonight.

 

Anyone have advice on tb kits with all the goodies? Are the cheaper kits on eBay something I should steer clear of? Also if I'm going to swap all of this out its worth doing the thermostat and coolant yes?

 

Really appreciate all the feedback so far guys!

[ivans imports]

check oil preshure before going any farther engine can be swaped in a day takes me about 3 hours alone to do engine swap give or take a 2.2 short block with your heads whould work or 2.2 swap I have a rebiult 2.5d short block go's for 1800$ surfaced new berings rings and knurlled pistons put your heads on and go

[lmdew]

Before you buy anything, figure out what has failed!

- Check the T-Belt and pulleys.  You have to pull the front covers but you can do that by removing the radiator fans, leaving the radiator installed with no loss of coolant.

- Check the Oil Filter for Metal

 

Rule out the simple things first and if you need an engine, get a used 95 2.2 with EGR.  It's a plug and play swap for the most part.

[Zimmyzoq]

So I managed to get the tb cover off - tensioner looks ok but Im not sure if you can tell just by eye. There is a bolt behind it which is half out - this seems a little sus. Also there is quite a bit of wear on the cover right behind where the crankshaft pulley sits. Also it looks like the camshaft sprockets are in line ok.

 

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

 

[mikec03]

+1 to imdew.  Check the easy stuff first.  I don't get the comment that it looks like the "camshft sprockets" [aka pulleys] look like they are OK.  There's great instructions and DIY's on timing belts.  The camshaft and crankshaft pulleys are either spot on or they are not!  Congratulation on getting the crankshaft pulley and timing belt covers off, but now you should be able to see clearly if the timing it f..ked up or not.

 

No idea what the loose bolt is!  Damage to the timing belt cover is no concern, at least compared to your other problems.  Some people even run their subarus without the covers.

[86BRATMAN]

that particular bolt is of no real concern. it is one of 3 or 4 that hold the tensioner bracket to the front of the engine. it's also highly unlikely that particular tensioner has failed in my experience, and most on the forum that it's the one everyone wants.

[Zimmyzoq]

Ok guys, thanks of all the great info and advice. I think aside from that loose wp bolt the tb system all looks ok - the black stuff on the belt was more powdery than chunks, so maybe just gradual wear and tear. Everything seems tight and the camshaft pulleys line up just right. 

BUT......

I think I get the dunce award for this one - as suggested i did accidentally drain the transmission fluid rather than the engine oil (wow...., and im studying to be an engineer??), and overfilled it with new oil. You learn from mistakes hey? It did seem odd that the 'oil' after 5k miles was not black but rather red, dont know why that didn't stick in my head.

So from here am I ok simply refilling with transmission fluid and putting her back together? Or having driven without the fluid could I have done some serious damage. 

Also is there anything else worth doing while im at it, ie spark plugs, or any of the tb stuff (if it isn't broken)?

Thanks again for all input

Zach

[idosubaru]

you drained fluid and then never refilled it, then drove it?  yes - fill it up through the dipstick with a funnel - yellow handle under the brake master cylinder on the drivers side.

passengers side is the front differential gear oil.

 

driving without trans fluid is real bad - metals can't ride against each other without lubrication in engines/trans generating all that heat.  but refill it ASAP and see what happens.  fortunately automatics retain fluid up in cavities, you only get about 33% of the fluid out with a simple drain, so you've got a good chance of being fine.

 

the ebay timing belt kits are great.  theimportexperts kits are nicer than some of the others but a little more expensive.   i wouldn't be buying a timing belt kit if the engine is bad though - particularly on that EJ25D because if you swap to another engine then the timing belt is worthless. i wouldn't do anything to that motor until you diagnose what is wrong with it.  spending money on parts for a motor that's already blown sounds like a waste to me.

 

i'm blacklisting you when you enter the job market.  lol.  i'm an engineer, we're not trained in auto mechanics. i could only wish some classes taught me to work on Subarus!   i started working on subarus in college doing engineering as well because i had too...it encourages initiative and resiliency, keep it up!