NEDs "massive" repair (with questions)

[92_rugby_subie]

After a scary situation on the highway (high speeds + braking quickly with warped rotors) I decided that the axles, wheel bearings, and rotors should be done.

My diagnosis was as follows:

-high speed braking caused wheel shaking -- WARPED ROTORS

-when passing obstructions (cars, buildings, fences etc) heard rattling while rolling and in gear driving -- WHEEL BEARINGS

-axle boot on right side was torn apart, grease everywhere and speed matched thunking when compression breaking -- AXLE

 

Parts list:

2 low mileage (basically new) axles from marcusgl10z28 (thanks, I appreciate it)

2 new centric rotors ($8.99 each)

4 new 6207 2RS C3 bearings from McGuire bearings (12.97 each)

 

Got the car up, removed the wheels and tore apart the brake stuff.... pads had lots of cracks and a chunk fell off... hmm, NEW PADS (nice little $40 surprise right there... Tore down more, removed axles, hammered out the bearings and put the new bearings in...

 

 

Parts list addition:

Brake fluid

Wagner thermoquiet brake pads (supposedly "WORLDS BEST" -- from the TV show) $29.99 so why not.

 

Tried prying the axle through the hub... axle nut flys off end... Oh crap, I stripped axle... Luckily no, just the castle nut... TO THE YARD... Got 5 axle nuts, all in great shape (just in case) and a few cone washers to compare lips. Didn't wanna risk it, so I used Milesfox's video and hammered with a block of wood until the axle was 90% through and started reassembly. First the DS tie-rod end stripped out (kept turning with the nut and wouldn't allow me to tighten it (bummer, those had just been replaced less than a year ago) -- so Ned sat like this for a day...

 

 

Another Parts addition:
DS Tie Rod End (outer) -- $15 and a day using the parents truck ($15 in gas)

 

Got that part, got it together WHOOT WHOOT... 

 

Then the same thing happened on the other side (why didn't I think that would happen)

 

Last parts addition (I hope)

PS Tie Rod End (outer) -- $15 and another day of using the parents truck ($15 in gas)

 

Ned is back on the ground after I bled the brakes a bit up front until clear fluid came out (question on end) and drove him around the block... Ick... I prefer the WRX... but I love my little car...

 

Thanks for sticking through this (at least I included pics) here are my questions:

I just bled the front brakes, and since the car was on jackstands my helper (girlfriend) refused to get in the car and just pushed on the brake pedal with her hand as I bled them. The brake pedal now goes to the floor with pressure, and the car stops... but not like I want it to... how do I tighten that up more... or is that ANOTHER surprise broken part (master cylinder Id presume)... If I need to bleed it more... should I do a FULL bleed (all four wheels) or is just the two fronts okay? Can I do it on the ground somehow so the car isn't on jackstands (girlfriend less sketched out)

 

Thanks, 92_Rugby_Subie and Ned
 

[SmashedGlass]

I don't see why you can't bleed it with all four on the ground; it's how I usually do it. And it wouldn't hurt to bleed all four wheels, in the proper order.

[92_rugby_subie]

Thanks for the quick reply!

Should I keep the engine running while I do it? It was super stiff before I started the car, then, it softened up quite noticeably.

[86 Wonder Wedge]

Should be done with engine off... but yeah, make sure the pads have seated into the caliper piston's grooves. And a bleed in sequence if you're in question.

[djellum]

jacked or on the ground doesnt matter, level would be best in case you run the master cylinder low.

 

if you have a vacuum tester it should have come with a bottle with an input and output nipple.  any pump would technically work, though make sure it doesn't flow to much, and you could make the bottle as well.  you hook up the hose to the bleeder and open it, pull a vacuum to the canister, and it sucks the fluid through.  its pretty much identical to the foot pumping method but you can do it yourself from under the car (works really well if your GF will watch the master cylindar and fill it for you)

 

also you could gravity bleed, which is just opening the bleeder and putting a bucket under it.  go make a sammich and keep the MC topped off.  a lot of people just open them all up with this method and keep and eye on the fluid level.  

 

personally I always bleed them all even If I only open the system in one place, and I would do them in the proper order.

[Mark Humble]

It would be best to bleed all four, starting with the rear. I'll bet the air is in the rear. Thats what happened on mine. Only when I tried to bleed the rears both bleed screws broke off flush with the wheel cylinder so bled it by lossening the brake lines. That was touchy as I didn't have a 10mm line wrench. Then later I replaced the wheel cylinders.

 

Mark

[jj421]

Also, what about bleeding the master cylinder? I've done some searching on brake work (since I have a similar problem), and found bleeding the MC helps a number of people. Pump the brake, hold pressure on the brake pedal (like bleeding a wheel), and then crack open one of the two lines coming from the MC. After a few seconds, close it up, pump the pedal, hold the pedal. Repeat on that same line if you think you need to, otherwise move to the next line. Once finished with that, proceed to bleeding all four wheels. Rear right, front left, rear left, front right.

 

That helped people, from what I've found. It didn't help me, because I think my disconnected hill holder is messing with the way the brake pedal feels. Oh well, I can still lock up the front wheels on dry pavement. I'll really worry about the brakes when I do my rear disc conversion. But you can try that too.

[djellum]

Also, what about bleeding the master cylinder? I've done some searching on brake work (since I have a similar problem), and found bleeding the MC helps a number of people. Pump the brake, hold pressure on the brake pedal (like bleeding a wheel), and then crack open one of the two lines coming from the MC. After a few seconds, close it up, pump the pedal, hold the pedal. Repeat on that same line if you think you need to, otherwise move to the next line. Once finished with that, proceed to bleeding all four wheels. Rear right, front left, rear left, front right.

 

That helped people, from what I've found. It didn't help me, because I think my disconnected hill holder is messing with the way the brake pedal feels. Oh well, I can still lock up the front wheels on dry pavement. I'll really worry about the brakes when I do my rear disc conversion. But you can try that too.

 

lockup is exactly what you dont want.  the design dollars go into making them less prone to locking up, while still allowing you to slow down.  im sure you can feel what your brakes are doing, but brake lockup is worse than weak breaks most of the time.

 

bleeding the MC is good if you run out of fluid.  if you get air in the MC its good (and sometimes necessary) to bleed it seperate since you will just push that air into the lines.  there shouldn't be much need normally, if you unhook the breaklines and put something on them to stop the fluid from leaking (piece of plastic and a rubber band works well).  you should only really have to push out the air in the calipers if you remove them.  gravity bleeding works good for calipers (at least you dont waste as much fluid).  course it never seems to work out that clean

[92_rugby_subie]

Calipers were taken off the hub, not fully removed, but Im sure air got in them somehow... fluid was icky anyway.... Hopefully I get to fix him tomorrow, but until then I get to drive around in a girly SWP WRX

 

Black and purple wheels with an "Import Sweethearts" Sticker on the windshield FTW

 

Thanks for your help guys! I appreciate it, scared to death about another surprise repair

[jj421]

lockup is exactly what you dont want.  the design dollars go into making them less prone to locking up, while still allowing you to slow down.  im sure you can feel what your brakes are doing, but brake lockup is worse than weak breaks most of the time.

 

Well, I'm just saying that they're good enough to lock up the wheels. I'm not saying locking up the wheels is the fastest you can stop (although in some instances it is), but before I bled my brakes, I couldn't get the wheels to lock up on dry pavement. No matter how hard I pushed on the pedal, no matter how far down the pedal went, they wouldn't lock up. I considered it "natural ABS," but to me it's uncomfortable. I like being able to lock up the wheels, so I know when is the best point to threshold brake. If I can't lock up the wheels, how do I know what my maximum stopping power is?

 

Now, if I'm offroad or in the wet, I can lock up the wheels very easy. Any kind of emergency maneuver at a decent speed in those conditions will involve either locking up the wheels or understeering. I'm gonna be buying new tires to help compensate that, even though I currently am running studded tires with decent tread. 

[92_rugby_subie]

I can lock them up from about 5mph to 0... but other than that, its slowing down, but Im still standing on the brake pedal... Gonna check for kinked/broken lines... if I don't find anything I guess Ill pay a shop to bleed them "properly"

 

 

On a plus note.. SILENCE no clunks, feels smooth, tight and doesn't rattle around the neighborhood

[marcusgl10z28]

Pm