Clocking torsion bars (Gen 2)

[UraBUS09]

Double post. Sorry.

Edited April 4, 2014 by UraBUS09

[UraBUS09]

I just replaced mine with a used one. One side broke, and was stiff as heck. They should just slide out, some are tighter than others in my experience. Also make sure the lock bolt is loose/removed. Try heat and tapping on it to break it loose maybe? And from my exp/knowledge they can be clocked either way, but if I remember right lowering is limited vs raising.? Good luck.

[the sucker king]

I just replaced mine with a used one. One side broke, and was stiff as heck. They should just slide out, some are tighter than others in my experience. Also make sure the lock bolt is loose/removed. Try heat and tapping on it to break it loose maybe? And from my exp/knowledge they can be clocked either way, but if I remember right lowering is limited vs raising.? Good luck.

are you talking about the inner end? I am talking about the outer end. If there is a lock bolt on the outer end holding the arm to the bar, that is my problem. once again to be clear,

I CAN'T SEPERATE THE OUTER  ARM FROM THE BAR ITSELF.

[Mykeys Toy]

I don't think there is one on the outside but maybe back off the adjuster bolt like you are lowering the car and see if maybe that helps free them up for adjustment.

[the sucker king]

hi I replaced the missing pics in the first post, maybe that will help us get back on track. remember that the ones I am trying to seperate are not in the car and in this state. I will put a flame on them tomorrow.

[the sucker king]

Well I completely missed the question from last July, but when I did this I used a rubber mallet and persuaded them off. Don't be alarmed if one or both of them come out of the inner side instead of outer, it will still accomplish the same result, just for the sake of not having to do it multiple times make some reference marks on the tube and swing are for this event.

Bratman, this post confuses me. I want to know how you disengaged the OUTER.In your first post in this thread you said you did that. But here are you saying you clocked the INNER? You say it will accomplish the same result. But it doesn't. There are a different number of splines on the inside than the outside. So it does not move them the same amount. What exactly did you do?

Sorry for beating a dead horse, for some reason the communication is not flowing so easy on this one.

Edited April 5, 2014 by the sucker king

[djellum]

I would definitely not heat the metal.  bad idea on suspension in general because of the heat treatment, but heating that spring material would likely ruin it completely.

 

id make a poor mans press.  a bottle jack with some sort of rigid platform bolted to something.  anything that would allow the shaft to fit through but not the swing arm end.  generally seen them made out of scrap metal, but for one time use you could probably just do 2x4's.

[Gloyale]

Seems like you could achieve the ride height you want by clocking the inners, and using the adjustment bolt.  6mm is barely a 1/4" of difference......and there is way more adjustment than that available from the bolt.

 

Not sure that it's really worth it to try to seperate those......Looking at the design.........I personally wouldn't want that end to be able to slide off........It pretty much relies on being a press fit that WON'T seperate or slip while driving since that could affect the rear end alignment and allow shifting.

Edited April 6, 2014 by Gloyale

[the sucker king]

Well over the weekend I soaked it and heated it with map gas I tried to punch it out and I tried to beat the plate off of it. It didn't budge, so today I took it to neighbor and heated it with acetylene and put it on a 30 ton press and nothing wouldn't budge, The plate started bending in the press. This particular bar came out of a complete rear assembly that sat outside uncovered for a few years, I think the rust has just gone too far.

I have two other complete rear assemblies, one that I pulled out of a 150k car and kept it indoors since pulled. This is the one I was going to clock and install in my car, but I didn't want to molest it until I had the junk one completely apart so I could see the problems, etc.

Then I have the rear end assembly that is in my car, which I don't want to molest for obvious reasons.

Don't know what I will do from here.

 

I would definitely not heat the metal.  bad idea on suspension in general because of the heat treatment, but heating that spring material would likely ruin it completely.

 

id make a poor mans press.  a bottle jack with some sort of rigid platform bolted to something.  anything that would allow the shaft to fit through but not the swing arm end.  generally seen them made out of scrap metal, but for one time use you could probably just do 2x4's.

 

As I understand torsion bars, they are super heated while being twisted to give them the qualities that they have. You might be right, I wonder how much heat it would take to ruin the temper, so to speak. Other than that, there is not much to ruin, the spring plate is just a steel plate, I don't think there is anything special about it. The bushing is rubber and the heat ruins them for sure, I have new bushings from the dealer to use on this project.

 

Seems like you could achieve the ride height you want by clocking the inners, and using the adjustment bolt.  6mm is barely a 1/4" of difference......and there is way more adjustment than that available from the bolt.

 

Not sure that it's really worth it to try to seperate those......Looking at the design.........I personally wouldn't want that end to be able to slide off........It pretty much relies on being a press fit that WON'T seperate or slip while driving since that could affect the rear end alignment and allow shifting.

 

Yes this is true and it may be the way I end up going, I like the idea of the precision you can tweek the ride height by clocking both ends, and the manuals say you can do it so....

one way or another I'll eventually make something happen.

 

I would still like to hear from anyone who has had one of these completely apart.

 

I may take my spare rear assembly and try to remove the spring plates off of it, maybe its not rusted solid like this one was, and maybe I will have better luck trying to remove it from a complete assembly by prying away from the tube with the adjusting bolt tightened down.

[djellum]

with suspension parts theres a lot of basic stuff that still has heat treatment and isn't always just plain mild steel.  with anything that is heat treated it only takes a few hundred degrees to start changing the structure.  with the spring piece its heated and then cooled in a specific method to create the spring.  your torch will return it to the pretreated heat, but unless you can recreate the cooling process you won't get the spring back to its final state.  you can generally get away with stuff on hard metal parts but springs will almost always be ruined by oxyfuel levels of heat.

[the sucker king]

with suspension parts theres a lot of basic stuff that still has heat treatment and isn't always just plain mild steel.  with anything that is heat treated it only takes a few hundred degrees to start changing the structure.  with the spring piece its heated and then cooled in a specific method to create the spring.  your torch will return it to the pretreated heat, but unless you can recreate the cooling process you won't get the spring back to its final state.  you can generally get away with stuff on hard metal parts but springs will almost always be ruined by oxyfuel levels of heat.

by "spring piece" are you talking about the outer arm? Bentleys does refer to it as a "Spring Plate" but I took that to be a discription of it's function more than any special qualities the metal had. I thought the torsion bar itself is the only thing doing any twisting or springing here.

[djellum]

yah, the bar is what I'm referring too.  whatever piece it is that actually flexes.  but you don't have to directly heat it for the heat to spread into it so be careful what you heat around it as well.  coil spring, leaf spring, torsion bar, they are all designed to flex and return to their set position without snapping or cracking.  adding heat will just impact their ability to do one of those things.  even if you only affect the last 2 inches of the bar its enough to cause it to snap rather than flex.

 

spring steel is a term that gets thrown around a bit loosely, but it actually is a designation of metal.  its a specific alloy and treatment that is designed to create the spring action.

 

I don't know a torsion system all that well since I have never had to work on it, but I just didn't want you to ruin the piece or wreck a car cause you heated what you shouldn't.  one of the projects in my metallurgy class was reviewing an insurance case that my instructor was assisting with.  a guy was heating bolts to remove them under his car and ruined the treatment on some parts that later snapped and caused him to wreck.

 

technically I should advice against welding on any suspension part, realistically a lot of us do it.  with spring material though you really can't get away with much.

[Mykeys Toy]

Ok its been over a year and my few months has been delayed yet again.  While restoring and  rebuilding a bbq with cast iron grates that were in poor shape, I learned a few different ways to de-rust  it, and should work fine for steel.  Both take time but they do a fabulous job.   If you have a bucket or tote big enough for your parts  ( if not go get something )  a 50/50 solution  of white vinegar ($2.50 a gallon @ Walmart).  Next is a little more costly to set up but I believe it works faster is called electrolysis.. Search for it on youtube. Good luck.  I do hope you are making good progress on your project aside from the rear end.

 

Mike