92 Loyale Wgn EA82 Coolant Loss Problem

[ehartshorn]

First, I want to say a big thank you to everyone here that takes the time to post their knowledge on this forum.  It is so rare to find a forum with a useful knowledge base, but I found one here.

 

I bought a 92 Loyale Wagon 5 spd 4WD about the end of July 2013 from a used car dealer.  About 225,000 miles.  Probably paid way too much for it...  In any case, it was exactly what I was looking for, it just needed a little bit of work  .  I knew the clutch needed replacing when I test drove it, but thought to myself that shouldn't be too hard, I've replaced dozens and dozens of clutches in my former life (16 years) as a professional mechanic.  Little did I know...

 

I joined USMB the same day I brought home the Loyale and started reading everything I could find out about the clutch job.  I have never done a Subaru or a 4WD clutch before, but it's just a few more pieces to remove and replace, right?  Thanks to the videos that Miles Fox has posted on YouTube, I thought I was ready to go.

 

I live in an apartment building, no place to work on a car, they frown when I lift the hood to check the oil in my wife's Suzuki.  I found  a gravel pit about 30 miles away out in the woods that I can use to work on the car.  No power tools, no shelter, no lift, no engine hoist.  This is the Pacific Northwest, where it rains every other day, and I drive the car daily to work, so my opportunities to work on the car are very limited.

 

When I crawled under the car, the first thing I noticed was the torn axle boot on the inner drivers side, so off the wife went for a new axle ($60 from O'Reilly's, and they stock it!)   I had ordered an Exedy Clutch kit from Amazon ($155 including shipping!)  No way to pull the engine, so had to slide the transaxle back and down, using bungee cords to hold the driveshaft in (no oil loss).   It only took about 3x longer than I had planned, and I had to leave the car overnight and return to finish the next day.

 

While buttoning up the project I noticed coolant dripping out of the timing belt cover area.  I had already given some thought to replacing the timing belt since I did not know the history, so I added a water pump to the mental shopping list, as well as the mouse o-ring for the oil pump.

 

Over the next two weeks it became a ritual to add about a quart of coolant every day as the water pump was dripping steadily.  Finally, back to the gravel pit last weekend with a new Aisin Water pump ($40 from Amazon), a new oil pump gasket ($7 from Amazon), a Cloyes Timing Belt Kit ($70, Amazon) and the upper and lower radiator hoses and the other small right-angle hose that connects to the water-pump, as well as a Subaru OEM Thermostat and radiator cap that I picked up at the Subaru dealer in Tacoma.

 

Following Miles' video it was a snap to change the timing belts.  The covers had been broken previously and wedged back into position; I threw them away as I removed them.  Changed the Water Pump and hoses and the oil pump gasket (it was OK) while the radiator was out.  Inspected the radiator, I've seen lots of these plastic side tanks come off, but these looked OK, and as far as I could see inside the filler neck the interior of the radiator looked good also.

 

Everything went back together well.  I (once again, a HUGE thanks to Miles!) followed Miles' video instructions on getting the air out of the cooling system.  Everything went well.

 

Headed for home, about 5-6 miles up the road, the temp gauge started to climb.  Pulled over, added about a half gallon of coolant.  Back on the road, about 5 miles later the gauge started to climb.  Pulled over, added coolant.  See the pattern yet?  About 5 miles, stop, add coolant...

 

I considered that it might be possible that I was not successful in getting the cooling system purged of air.  The next day, after work, while still parked at work, I removed the thermostat.  I filled the radiator until the block was full up to the thermostat housing (a little trick I figured out back in the early 80's for those new-fangled front wheel drive cars with low radiators), inserted the thermostat, buttoned up, and once again followed the video procedure for purging the system.  After it was purged, I sat and idled for about 20 minutes, no drips, no visible coolant, system has pressure on it.  Started towards home.  About 5 miles later, the temp gauge again started to climb...

 

While washing my greasy, oily clothes at the local laundromat, I parked out back and removed the Subaru OEM Thermostat and closed up the engine, filled the system, good coolant flow all the time of course.

 

Now, the temp gauge barely nudges off the bottom line, until suddenly, at about 5 miles, it starts to climb up.  Again, I stop, add about a half gallon of coolant, drive 5 miles, add half a gallon, drive 5 miles, add half a gallon...

 

I don't think I have actually overheated it yet, the highest the gauge has gone is about 3/4 to the red line (Used to run at about 1/4).  I'm no longer leaving an antifreeze puddle on the ground when parked.  I don't know where the coolant is going.  Heater works great, no discernible leakage in the interior.  No clouds of smoke from the tailpipe of any sort.  When I stop to add coolant, there might be a little whiff of coolant on the top of the engine, near the throttle body, but it vanishes so quickly when I open the hood that I'm not sure yet.

 

Does anyone have any idea what I am not seeing here?  It's been 20+ years since the last time I worked on a Subaru, I'm not familiar with their quirks and special needs.

 

What am I missing?

Edited September 10, 2013 by ehartshorn

[MR_Loyale]

Maybe a head gasket?

[ehartshorn]

A possibility I suppose, but there is nothing in the oil, nothing in the exhaust.  I changed the oil last weekend also, it's still clean.  Doing the HG's are on my list for the future, but no way that's going to happen for a few weeks at least.

[92loyale59]

There might just be a very small hole in one or the hoses for either the heater core or maybe the hose from below the thermostat to the intake. i have gad it happen to mine before and i couldnt tell where it was dripping from untill it was being revved up and already warm ?

[TomRhere]

Had issue with my EA82 loosing coolant, no "puddle" left in the driveway. Always started it up and drove out of the shop's parking lot after work.

But I seemed to always be adding coolant to it.

 

Found that it was leaking from the O-ring for the supply pipe to the water pump. It would leak when cold, but stop leaking when it warmed up. 

[ehartshorn]

Hose below thermostat to intake? Didn't realize there was another hose, I will have to look. I'm also going to pull the AC compressor back off tomorrow night and make sure the little elbow hose isn't leaking. I replaced the o-ring on the supply pipe and made certain it was well seated, but will double check that also. It doesn't leak noticeably when cold, or at idle, seems to be only when driving. Heater hoses need to be replaced, but I didn't notice any leaks. Yet.

 

Thanks for the ideas. Sometimes a person needs a fresh set of eyes (and brains) on a problem.

 

Can someone point me to a picture of the hose from below the thermostat to the intake? Or where to buy it? I may as well see if I can get it before I look at it tomorrow night.

Edited September 11, 2013 by ehartshorn

[92loyale59]

i just ment that small elbowed coolent hose .

if you need a picture i can get one up here just let me know

[ehartshorn]

Ok, got that one. Although, my Chilton does seem to show something that may be for throttle body heat, does that come off the heater pipe?

 

I apologize if I appear to be nit picking, I just need to be able to get it back to drive able condition ASAP when I take it apart...the fewer surprises the better.

[l75eya]

Have the wife Rev the engine while it's warmed up and poke your head around for leaks. Hold it steady around 3k. If it starts to overheat while your stationary and just revving the engine you should be able to find the leak.

It always sucks to try and find mystery leaks. Good luck!

[ehartshorn]

92loyale59 got me thinking.  I looked for and found the coolant lines to the Throttle Body, cleaned up the area best as I could with paper towels.  Topped off the coolant last night.  Checked this morning, still full.  Started off toward work, stopped as soon as the temp came off the peg.  Sure enough, found a pinhole spraying towards the throttle body on the hose that feeds the throttle body.  Anyone know where I can find a replacement hose at?  

 

Photo located at link below; the editor doesn't like any of the ways that I have available to share the photo on here.

 

http://edhartshorn.blogspot.com/2013/09/subie-leak.html

 

 

So, where do I get a replacement hose at?  One in this small diameter that can take heat, pressure, ethylene glycol, and a bend??

Edited September 12, 2013 by ehartshorn

[ehartshorn]

I may have found the hose at O'Reilly's, I'll go by after work and see.  The hose I'm looking at is a Gates # 18020.  MyPartsGarage.com has a listing for that hose as a Goodyear #64310 as being for Pipe 1 to throttle body.

[ehartshorn]

Picked up that hose at O'Reilly's and installed it right then and there. Drove at least 20 miles and nearly 45 minutes no problems.

 

I still need to locate the other hose(s) in that area, appears to be one on the thermostat housing, don't know if there are others. If they are as rotten as this one is they won't last long.

[briankk]

Had a problem kind of like this, just this morning.  Driving up a hill, pulled into a driveway, noticed steam from the right of the hood.  Temp read normal... clutched it a shut down, opened the hood, steam from beneath the spare tire, removed that, steam coming from the clutch fork boot??

 

Finally found that there are 2 heater hoses down there, the hose clamp from the left hose had rotated until the point of the screw started rubbing against the right hose, eventually wearing through..

 

Coasted down hill to a hardware store, cut out damaged hose and replaced the section with the center bit of a garden hose repair kit.  Drove to Subaru of Shingle Springs, where I found that they don't stock the part(s), but could get 'em in a couple of days, for $40.  Opted out and drove home.  Moral of the story, remember the hoses under the spare..

 

To Shingle Springs Soob:  Dude! 5/8 heater hose costs a buck a foot at local hardware store, instantly available!

[ehartshorn]

Yep briankk, the heater hoses are on my list to replace soon.  I'm probably going to spring for the formed ones for $20 ea $5 ea from Rock Auto, just to keep everything looking OE.  

 

Now if I can just find that last hose, the one from the thermostat housing that dives into the tangle under the manifold...  Once that is done I will reinstall the OEM thermostat.  No leaks now, nice to be able to drive to work non-stop again, but I'm afraid to put full heat and pressure on the remaining old, rotten, hoses.

Edited September 13, 2013 by ehartshorn

[jono]

intake manifold gaskets are a good thing to replace with genuine articles - at your convenience, order and install. Reason being is water passage in this area, can leak outside or inside down inlet ports. EA82 also has 20mm wlech /freeze plugs in the heads, three a side that can leak water to oil space of under rocker covers

 

Be prepared for the last inlet to head bolt snapping and need redrilling and rethreading - the bolt tends to build up corrosion between manifold and bolt itself

[ehartshorn]

Thanks Jono.  Top end gasket set is on the horizon, good to know about the freeze plugs in the head.  

 

I've seen my share of seized bolts in aluminum engines; don't like 'em but know how to deal with them.  And that's always the way it is.  Just as you say to yourself "made it" that last bolt rips out  .