First Subaru Help!

[bultmajd]

Hello all, 

 

I am looking at getting a new car and... Subaru's are seemingly to fit it bill

 

I currently drive 1999 Jeep Grand Cherokee with about 245,xxx miles on her, back and forth to work about 70 miles a day. There's nothing major mechanically wrong with it, that prohibits my driving to work... however I have a feeling that it's not too far away from dying. So, prior to it doing so I would like to purchase something. Subaru's are looking like the choice for me. 

 

I don't really need the 4x4 or the 'grand' size of the Jeep anymore but, where I live I would very much like a minimum of AWD. I will have about $10,000 to spend and would prefer to not to finance. I understand that my price range prohibits the purchasing of a new Subaru, and that's OK, used is alright with me (as long as the miles aren't too high and it runs fine).

I have enough mechanical knowledge to do an inspection and some mechanical fixes. Gas Mileage, isn't a factor for me, considering I drive a Jeep getting about 20 mpg daily, but I wouldn't mind one with better, even if just a little.

 

What ever I get I will need to put a roof rack on for skis, bikes and a kayak.

 

Now to the car.... I have been looking mainly at the Impreza. But the Legacy, Forester and Outback are in the selection too. In the research that I have done I have seen some great reviews on all of them but also some bad ones!! I'm just not sure on which one would suit my needs best. Again, the Impreza is my top choice so far but the reviews I have seen praise a certain year and/or complaints for some other ones that are turning me off!!! 

 

Help me choose please. I would prefer the a car (Impreza or Legacy) not a wagon but if its the best then I will "suffer" haha. I know everyone's ideas will be different (as the the model) but I'm just trying to weigh my options and purchase the best car for my needs. 

 

Thanks and I look forward to your responses!

[uniberp]

For 10k you could buy 5 running imprezas and have enough left over for a new set of tires.

 

But then you'd have to swap the tires to each car when you wanted to drive it, because Subarus are quite sensitive to having matching tire circumferences.

[heartless]

Symmetrical AWD will beat standard 4x4 hands down...my 90 Legacy AWD wagon handles far better in the snow - even "deep" snow - than our 95 Dodge Ram 4x4 does...the only thing the Dodge has going for it is ground clearance - Ha!

 

You want/must have a roof rack? then "wagon" is the way to go - almost all have a factory roof rack.

 

Coming out of a Jeep, I would think the Forester would be the most similar to what you are used to - and a bit more "manly" than say, an Impreza Sport would be.

 

You should be able to get a very nice, used Subaru - of any model - in the $5000 - $7500 range.

 

Things to look for when looking at a used Subaru:

 

Tires - all should be of the same brand, style, air pressures, and similar wear patterns - Subaru AWD IS fussy about tires - they all need to be within about 1/4 inch in circumference of each other. Be very wary of mismatched tires!

 

When test driving - go to a large paved parking lot, and turn very slow tight circles with the car (basically a rolling idle, steering cranked all the way over) - both forward, and backwards, in both directions - you are testing for "torque-bind" - any resistance, bucking, odd-feelings - take the car back and walk away. a search here about torque bind will give you more information about it than you ever thought you wanted.

 

Maintenance history if at all possible - most Subarus have timing belts, and other timing related components, that need to be changed at regular intervals to avoid internal damage to the engine. (since about 1996, Subaru engines are all interference style - a broken belt will cause internal damage - older models were non-interference - no internal damage if a belt broke)

 

There are certain engine models that had head gasket issues - again, a search here will turn up an overload of information about that.

 

Educate yourself about what you are looking for, and understand that buying a used car - even a "newer" used car, can be a bit of a gamble, no matter what. You dont know how that car was treated and/or maintained - the seller might tell you it was driven by a little old lady only to church on Sundays, but can they prove it?

[1 Lucky Texan]

If you think you will be on dirt/mud/gravel roads, you may need more ground clearance than a stock legacy or Impreza will offer. So, you should limit your shopping to Outback, Forester or 'Outback Sport'. The last 2 are based on 'impreza' chassis. The Outback as most people think of it, is legacy chassis-based.

 

You can do a little research at www.cars101.com

Edited September 17, 2013 by 1 Lucky Texan

[bultmajd]

Symmetrical AWD will beat standard 4x4 hands down...my 90 Legacy AWD wagon handles far better in the snow - even "deep" snow - than our 95 Dodge Ram 4x4 does...the only thing the Dodge has going for it is ground clearance - Ha!

 

You want/must have a roof rack? then "wagon" is the way to go - almost all have a factory roof rack.

 

Coming out of a Jeep, I would think the Forester would be the most similar to what you are used to - and a bit more "manly" than say, an Impreza Sport would be.

 

You should be able to get a very nice, used Subaru - of any model - in the $5000 - $7500 range.

 

Things to look for when looking at a used Subaru:

 

Tires - all should be of the same brand, style, air pressures, and similar wear patterns - Subaru AWD IS fussy about tires - they all need to be within about 1/4 inch in circumference of each other. Be very wary of mismatched tires!

 

When test driving - go to a large paved parking lot, and turn very slow tight circles with the car (basically a rolling idle, steering cranked all the way over) - both forward, and backwards, in both directions - you are testing for "torque-bind" - any resistance, bucking, odd-feelings - take the car back and walk away. a search here about torque bind will give you more information about it than you ever thought you wanted.

 

Maintenance history if at all possible - most Subarus have timing belts, and other timing related components, that need to be changed at regular intervals to avoid internal damage to the engine. (since about 1996, Subaru engines are all interference style - a broken belt will cause internal damage - older models were non-interference - no internal damage if a belt broke)

 

There are certain engine models that had head gasket issues - again, a search here will turn up an overload of information about that.

 

Educate yourself about what you are looking for, and understand that buying a used car - even a "newer" used car, can be a bit of a gamble, no matter what. You dont know how that car was treated and/or maintained - the seller might tell you it was driven by a little old lady only to church on Sundays, but can they prove it?

 

Thanks Heartless,

 

That was extremely helpful, especially what to look for when buying Subaru's. I guess my only real concern isn't roof racks (because I have the ability to put a roof rack on whatever I get even if it has or doesn't have a stock one already installed) or ground clearance or whatever. It's picking a model with a wrong year. For example I found a 2008 Impreza, decent price, good shape, low miles and.... but upon farther research I found this (http://www.carcomplaints.com/Subaru/Impreza/2008/) seemingly complaints and recall problems galore? which intern puts me off from 2008s and Impreza's in general.

 

I guess my question would be.... Is there a better year Forester, Impreza, Outback and/or Legacy than others? One that is more reliable, less problems in general, has lower recalls and complaint, etc.?

 

I'm pretty sure that I just need to go drive the 4 of them to figure out which one would best suit me and my driving, I like the idea of a AWD car with a touch better mpg like the Impreza or "nicer" Legacy... Or something with about the same storage space as my jeep, "higher ground clearance" and standard roof rack with the Outback and Forester

 

I guess I'm just lost!!!

[bultmajd]

If you think you will be on dirt/mud/gravel roads, you may need more ground clearance than a stock legacy or Impreza will offer. So, you should limit your shopping to Outback, Forester or 'Outback Sport'. The last 2 are based on 'impreza' chassis. The Outback as most people think of it, is legacy chassis-based.

 

You can do a little research at www.cars101.com

Thanks, for the comparison and chassis reference. I'll be sure to take a look more one here and cars101.com

[MilesFox]

Those complaints would be more general acroass all models for certain spans of years. Don't go by model so much as year of manufacture. Some of the most reliable engines ever built would be from the 90-96 models, if that is not too old to shop for. But the newer ones haven't been around long enough to prove.

 

This is not so much a manufacture or design flaw, but maintenance issue. Subarus are finicky and particular about 'proper subaru maintenance' but the maintenance procedures themselves are pretty sstaight forward.

 

If you read alot about head gasket failures, you can attribute that to lack of coolant flushes and latting the car go to 100,000 mi without the 30 and 60 thousand mile service intervals.

 

Otherwise a subaru is a great platform for versatility. I like to think of it a a modular car. If you were a mechanic or a gear head you would find that you can build a subaru much like a set of legos, mixing and matching across several years and platforms. Parts are easy to interchange with subaru.

 

I have had mainly older subarus, I have gotten my hands dirty with alot of them, but i find them for cheap, i have had more than 40 of them, and i will continue to stick with subarus as other types of vehicles just don't appeal to me (by function or engineering)

[1 Lucky Texan]

first, you seem generally happy with your Jeep. $10,000 would go a long way to keeping it in reliable condition I'd think.

 

 

With used cars, the individual vehicle's past care and present condition are vastly more important than it's brand/model or predicted reliability when new. In short, an abused 6 year old Honda could be a worse purchase than a pampered 6 year old Fiat.

 

 

Perhaps ask for Subaru mechanics in Cincinnati in a new thread. 2 reasons. One, sometimes they will have a car or 2 posted for sale by a customer in their waiting room. Second, have a prospective purchase looked at before buying. A pre-purchase inspection may cost an hour or two's labor, but it could save you from buying a car with torque bind or low compression in a cylinder or ???

 

 

As for recalls, all cars have them. You would be wise to have the VIN checked by a dealer for ANY brand of used car to see if safety recalls were done.

Edited September 17, 2013 by 1 Lucky Texan

[Fairtax4me]

Every car has recalls and TSBs. Toyota has a current recall campaign on the Tacoma and Tundra covering about a 10 year span because of SEVERE rusting of the frame.

 

There was a HUGE recall on Fords not too long ago, something about the windsheild wiper motors catching on fire IIRC.

 

Plenty of others out there as well. Point is, there have been NO major NHTSA safety recalls on Subarus in any time that I can remember.

 

Whatever Subaru you pick is going to be a good car for you.

Which one you pick is going to be decided by how much space you need, and what kind of fuel mileage you want.

Space:

1. Legacy Wagon and Outback

2. Forester

3. Impreza

Fuel Economy

1. Impreza

2. Legacy

3. Forester

[bultmajd]

Those complaints would be more general acroass all models for certain spans of years. Don't go by model so much as year of manufacture. Some of the most reliable engines ever built would be from the 90-96 models, if that is not too old to shop for. But the newer ones haven't been around long enough to prove.

 

This is not so much a manufacture or design flaw, but maintenance issue. Subarus are finicky and particular about 'proper subaru maintenance' but the maintenance procedures themselves are pretty sstaight forward.

 

If you read alot about head gasket failures, you can attribute that to lack of coolant flushes and latting the car go to 100,000 mi without the 30 and 60 thousand mile service intervals.

 

Otherwise a subaru is a great platform for versatility. I like to think of it a a modular car. If you were a mechanic or a gear head you would find that you can build a subaru much like a set of legos, mixing and matching across several years and platforms. Parts are easy to interchange with subaru.

 

I have had mainly older subarus, I have gotten my hands dirty with alot of them, but i find them for cheap, i have had more than 40 of them, and i will continue to stick with subarus as other types of vehicles just don't appeal to me (by function or engineering)

 

 

Oh.. thanks, would you suggest looking at anything more than heartless suggested?

 

So I just want to confirm that your saying all years and models are good its just long as their required maintenance is done? What were you talking about with model years?

 

I was looking at getting something with less than 80-90,xxx miles about a 2005-9... basically not too old or too many miles, ideas? Thoughts?

 

Oh and I would prefer a manual, but its not 100% required

Edited September 17, 2013 by bultmajd

[bultmajd]

first, you seem generally happy with your Jeep. $10,000 would go a long way to keeping it in reliable condition I'd think.

 

 

With used cars, the individual vehicle's past care and present condition are vastly more important than it's brand/model or predicted reliability when new. In short, an abused 6 year old Honda could be a worse purchase than a pampered 6 year old Fiat.

 

 

Perhaps ask for Subaru mechanics in Cincinnati in a new thread. 2 reasons. One, sometimes they will have a car or 2 posted for sale by a customer in their waiting room. Second, have a prospective purchase looked at before buying. A pre-purchase inspection may cost an hour or two's labor, but it could save you from buying a car with torque bind or low compression in a cylinder or ???

 

 

As for recalls, all cars have them. You would be wise to have the VIN checked by a dealer for ANY brand of used car to see if safety recalls were done.

I generally am happy with my jeep, but I think I'm ready for a change and this seems to be a perfect time!!

 

Where would you suggest looking and or posting for the mechanics in Cincinnati thread??

[heartless]

a well cared for subaru in the 100-150K range should not necessarily be overlooked just because of the mileage.

 

1LuckyTexan has a valid point in finding a mechanic you can trust that knows at least a little about Subarus (you would be surprised how many dont know much of anything about them) - a thourough pre-purchase inspection is always a very good idea. Just start a new thread in this same section for your mechanic search.

 

 

myself - I am in the same camp as MilesFox - I like the older ones (90-96) - "proven over time" engines that are darn near bullet proof, and will easily run for several thousand miles when properly maintained - the chassis will fall apart around them before they quit running. That isnt to say that a newer one wouldnt, because they will - when properly maintained. Good maintenace is important - for any vehicle.

 

As others have said - there are recalls & TSBs for almost any make out there, so use a little common sense about that stuff.

Also keep in mind that most people dont say anything when they are happy with something, but let something upset them for whatever reason, and everyone and anyone is gonna hear about it...

[MilesFox]

Here is my riddle about mileage on a car:

 

Same year make and model. One has 80,ooo mi, the other has 120,000 mi. Which one would you chose?

The answer is typically 80,000 mi. When i ask why, the answer is usually "less miles, will last longer"

 

Then my reply is:

If the major service interval is at 100,000 mi, the 80,000 mi car will last you 20,000 mi as it will be due.. The 120,000 mi car will last you 80,000 mi if the 100,000 mi service has been performed.

 

Don't be scared off by higher mileage (125-150,000 mi) if the records can prove major services such as timing belt, water pump, or head gasket.

 

Any premature HG failure that ha been repaired would have been so with a superseded part and would be a permanent fix.

[MilesFox]

Please don't let all this speculation scare you away from Subaru. We just don't want you tobe unhappy with a decision because you didn't know about something that you wouldn't have learned if you didn't ask here first.

a well cared for subaru in the 100-150K range should not necessarily be overlooked just because of the mileage.

 

 

Also keep in mind that most people dont say anything when they are happy with something, but let something upset them for whatever reason, and everyone and anyone is gonna hear about it...

[bultmajd]

Please don't let all this speculation scare you away from Subaru. We just don't want you tobe unhappy with a decision because you didn't know about something that you wouldn't have learned if you didn't ask here first.

 

No your not scaring me away at all, actually despite the lack of suggestions for models and years this is exactly what I wanted... the truth.it's not turning me off, in fact it's drawing me towards.

"If I do the maintenance required and find one that's been loved it should be with me forever. If I do encounter a problem that I can't fix... I know where to turn!!!"

This is exactly what I wanted when I bought my jeep, that I didn't receive. Luckily, I was able to fix all the problems.

I will go ahead and post looking for a mechanic in my area

[heartless]

No your not scaring me away at all, actually despite the lack of suggestions for models and years this is exactly what I wanted... the truth.it's not turning me off, in fact it's drawing me towards.

"If I do the maintenance required and find one that's been loved it should be with me forever. If I do encounter a problem that I can't fix... I know where to turn!!!"

This is exactly what I wanted when I bought my jeep, that I didn't receive. Luckily, I was able to fix all the problems.

I will go ahead and post looking for a mechanic in my area

 

I think most are shying away from recommending a specific model/year because everyone's tastes are a little different. You need to go try out a few different models and see which fits you best. Head room, leg room, & seating position are different in each of the models, and there is some variation between years (model changes/updates over time)

 

Me personally - I like the Legacy wagon - has more interior cargo space than the Impreza/Forester - it suits me, and my purposes. We had two large dogs that had to be hauled to the vets office - the wagon gives plenty of space for doing so. I have also done a lot of other "hauling" of stuff with it - including moving my mother a couple of times...we used a truck & trailer for the large stuff, but all the smaller stuff was moved in my car - it is amazing how much you can fit in a Subaru with a little careful packing - LOL

I dont typically have passengers (maybe one in the front) so backseat leg room doesnt concern me as much (rather limited in the older/smaller versions).

 

The Forester is going to be taller with much more headroom, and more legroom judging by the 98 model we have in our driveway... backseat legroom is also greater than the Legacy, but cargo space is a bit smaller (shorter behind the backseat)

 

I have no experience with the Impreza, so I cant really comment on that model - in all honesty, I dont really care for how they look (especially the wagon versions) - but that is a personal thing - nothing to do with the actual driveability/comfort/function of the car. You might find you like it better than the others.

 

Basically it boils down to what is going to fit you and your needs best (model choice), and when buying used, how well was it cared for by the previous owner(s). Records proving services are a huge plus...general condition - both inside and out - can indicate care as well. What kind of condition is the interior in? does it "fit" with the mileage? if the interior is in very good condition (clean, no tears, no gunk in cracks & crevices), and the miles are higher, chances are it was well cared for - if the interior is worn/dirty looking/tears in the fabrics and the miles are lower - it probably wasnt well cared for.

 

as an example: we have a 98 Forester in the drive - the original owner took very good care of the car - the second owners - not so much...we are 3rd owners...

The car has over 364,000 miles on the odometer and is physically in good condition - you dont get those kinds of miles by not caring for the car long term (and this particular model is one of the first that had the headgasket failure prone engine - the EJ25D - again, you dont get that kind of mileage without caring for the car).

 

The sad part of this one is the 2nd owner (they bought the car in December 2012) that did nothing but put gas in it and drive it - even after it started having issues - it wasnt taken in to be checked out until it was far too late, and the "mechanic" (i use the term loosely here) they took it to was a complete idiot and started a fire under the hood (that was in early May of this year - we bought it in June).

 

I hate to say it, but we may not be able to resurrect this one - just too much damage, too many problems at this point - but we got it ridiculously cheap so we arent out that much, and many parts can be reused elsewhere.

[bultmajd]

I think most are shying away from recommending a specific model/year because everyone's tastes are a little different. You need to go try out a few different models and see which fits you best. Head room, leg room, & seating position are different in each of the models, and there is some variation between years (model changes/updates over time)

 

And I'm not expecting you to after all the explanations that I received about the model, years, and just general information about each one. I think that it has come down to the point where I need to get in the ones that I'm looking at and go from there. I'll decide at that point in time... However I do have one more question?

 

What are some pros and cons of each of the 4 models? (general or specific) THANKS!

[1 Lucky Texan]

hard to think of anything....some Legacies and Outbacks have a flat 6 cyl. engine that uses a timing chain instead of a belt as used in all 4 cyl. engines prior to - uh, - about 2012 or so. There is no service interval listed for the chain and failures have so far been very rare.

 

Although it actually is a well-planted car, some folks feel the Forester exhibits too much body roll when cornering.

 

 

really, they are just different body styles and you just need to drive them.

 

Oh yeah, if you tow anything you need to check the tow specs. probably find those also at www.cars101.com

Edited September 19, 2013 by 1 Lucky Texan

[heartless]

aside from the cargo space differences noted above - and what 1LuckyTexan mentioned there really isnt much pro/con between the models to talk about...

They are all very capable cars that can serve you very well for many miles/years when cared for properly.

 

go try them on for size, see which model appeals to you the most, fits you the best, and is going to meet your needs the best...

[bultmajd]

hard to think of anything....some Legacies and Outbacks have a flat 6 cyl. engine that uses a timing chain instead of a belt as used in all 4 cyl. engines prior to - uh, - about 2012 or so. There is no service interval listed for the chain and failures have so far been very rare.

 

Although it actually is a well-planted car, some folks feel the Forester exhibits too much body roll when cornering.

 

 

really, they are just different body styles and you just need to drive them.

 

Oh yeah, if you tow anything you need to check the tow specs. probably find those also at www.cars101.com

 

I don't think that I'm going to need to tow anything, but the use of a cargo carrier on the hitch (if applicable) would be used.

 

Is the belt that is, per you, used in all 4 cyl's prior to 2012 alright? I'm used to chains all of the cars that's I've had, not belts and am hesitant about switching. I know the belts stretch and in general wouldn't be as reliable however, I'm aware of the reliability with the older models and would assume that would be the use of belts not chains, correct?! Thus the belts are fine, as long as the required 30, 60 and 100,xxx mi services are done and done right, right??

 

 

aside from the cargo space differences noted above - and what 1LuckyTexan mentioned there really isnt much pro/con between the models to talk about...

They are all very capable cars that can serve you very well for many miles/years when cared for properly.

 

go try them on for size, see which model appeals to you the most, fits you the best, and is going to meet your needs the best...

 

That's exactly where I think I am at now, go drive the 4 and figure out which one will suit my needs the best and I like the most!!

Edited September 19, 2013 by bultmajd

[Fairtax4me]

Timing belts have 105k mile or 10 year change interval. (Whichever comes first)

The newer belts don't stretch. At least not an amount that will be noticable to you or I. Biggest deal with the belts is to make sure the idlers and water pump get changed when the belt is changed. These timing belts seldom break on their own. A seized idler pulley or water pump is almost always the cause of a broken belt.

[1 Lucky Texan]

swing-away carrier would work with the hatches on the wagons. Otherwise, a sedan might be better for you. I dunno, are there carriers that stick out enough for hatches to open?

 

timing belts have been quite the norm for decades for many car brands/models and, if the service was done 'correctly', they don't present a problem. The issue come when buying a used car as to whether a belt only was slapped on the car, or if all the appropriate ancillary gear was attended to.

 

If you plan to regularly cruise with a load and passengers, you might lean towards a 6 cylinder model.

 

Hvae you found a local shop with some Subaru experience that can provide a pre-purchase inspection?

Edited September 19, 2013 by 1 Lucky Texan

[bultmajd]

Timing belts have 105k mile or 10 year change interval. (Whichever comes first)

The newer belts don't stretch. At least not an amount that will be noticable to you or I. Biggest deal with the belts is to make sure the idlers and water pump get changed when the belt is changed. These timing belts seldom break on their own. A seized idler pulley or water pump is almost always the cause of a broken belt.

 

Ok thank you, I guess its not as big of a deal as I'm making it out to be.... as long as the right service gets preformed!! 

 

swing-away carrier would work with the hatches on the wagons. Otherwise, a sedan might be better for you. I dunno, are there carriers that stick out enough for hatches to open?

 

timing belts have been quite the norm for decades for many car brands/models and, if the service was done 'correctly', they don't present a problem. The issue come when buying a used car as to whether a belt only was slapped on the car, or if all the appropriate ancillary gear was attended to.

 

If you plan to regularly cruise with a load and passengers, you might lean towards a 6 cylinder model.

 

Hvae you found a local shop with some Subaru experience that can provide a pre-purchase inspection?

 

Well the cargo carrier that I have fits on my Grand Cherokee allows for the hatch to open without getting in the way (with about the maximum of a large cooler and a large Rubbermaid container). Now if I bolt a fork mount on it and put my extra bikes on it then... I will be unable to open the gate, obviously. I am aware that the height difference between the hitch and swing of the gate is a little different between a Subaru and my jeep. So I don't know

 

I normally drive to work about 70 miles, around town and to soccer practice. I will twice or so a week load up to go to the bike trails and in the winter 4-6 days a week go to the ski slope and on occasion pack it full when we go on vacation. I'm thinking that the forester (although I don't like its design) and the outback is looking to be my best bet...but I won't be able to determine that until I test drive them all. would you look at getting the 6cyl or should the 4cyl be alright???

 

I did a post this afternoon to find one... however my uncle was a mechanic for 30+ years and now works as an appraiser for an insurance company, I think I'm going to take him with me when I go for a test drive. Then have a Subaru specialist take a look (when I find one) if he gives me the all clear!

[MilesFox]

The outback is just an upper trim level to the legacy. The forester is an impreza frame with a taller roof. The legacy is actually a little wider inside. A forester compared to a legacy is a smaller car with bigger wheels.

 

The forester does have it's own featres such as storage spots in the arm rest, and the fold down seats have several positions. Thsi sets it apart from impreza and legacy.

 

You may opt for a legacy if you want overall more cubic space. But the forester has a little more head room than the legacy. It depends on how you load down the car, but i think a legacy has more room(comparing late 90's models)

[Fairtax4me]

If you're loading up with gear and people on a regular basis I'd go with the Outback. It's the most occupant room, the biggest cargo area, and has good ground clearance for snow and minor off-road. Outback is also low enough that you can put bikes on the roof fairly easily (much easier than putting them on the roof of a Cherokee).

 

Hatch clearance for a hitch mount cargo carrier I wouldn't think should be an issue. The hitch will be roughly the same distance below the hatch as it is on the Cherokee.