Electrical Problems with new 2014 Subaru Outback

[bibsoconner]

Hi, Please point me to the correct forum if this is not the most appropriate one...

 

I just (4 weeks ago) bought a new 2014 Subaru Outback. About 2 weeks ago I noticed that I had trouble starting the car. It started on the second try. I didn't think much of it, but the problem repeated. I used a Volt meter to see that the voltage was extremely low (<10 volts; I'm surprised it started!) after letting it sit a while. As an experiment, I disconnected the battery after I got home from work. It started the next morning with no problems. I continued like this for a few days, noticing that the problem seemed dependent on how long the car sat turned off, and that the problem seemed fixed if one was willing to disconnect the battery each time. This led me to think it was a short. The one other clue is that my wife took it to a car wash right before this all started happening. Finally, I took it in to the dealer. The night before, I decided to leave the battery connected. It started the next morning just fine (this was about a week after I noticed the initial problem). In fact, I had seen evidence that the problem was going away. Sure if enough, the dealer can find nothing wrong. I'm worried that the problem is going to reappear.

 

Any ideas? Is stress that the car wash may be totally unrelated. However, it seems like a good hypothesis: car wash causes some sort of short. Problem goes away over time (due to drying?). 

 

Any mechanics gurus have any ideas? Anyone else had this problem? Obviously it's a bummer to have a new car that you're always wondering if it's going to start when you want it to. And of course, there is an expectation that your car can go through a car wash or brave a rain storm without problems.

 

Any ideas/help/advice would be much appreciated.

 

Dave

P.S. I tried to look for info on this. I did not see any recalls/posts, etc.

  

 

[Cougar]

You may have started with a weak battery when you purchased the car though the voltage shouldn't have gotten to 10 volts. A loose fan or serpentine belt could be causing the issue. Dirty battery connections or loose alternator output connection are other possibilities. The current draw on the battery while parked shouldn't be more than 60 milliamps. You might want to purchase a voltmeter that you can plug into the cigarette lighter socket to monitor the battery voltage. Here is a link to one:

 

http://www.equus.com/Product/3721/Battery-Monitor  

[idosubaru]

if it is the car wash - then something is still wrong because a car wash wouldn't cause it.

do you live in a place that has reasonable possibility of animals?  squirrels, mice, chipmunks?

 

loose battery terminal will prevent the battery from fully charging.  it may be fixed now that it's been worked on and there's no more issue.

 

was the battery tested?  they can have bad cells and be troublesome in terms of starting sometimes and not others and show 12 volts just fine. i'm not a battery expert i've just seen it happen and seen them tested as such. odd and unlikely for a new car but it's an easy test to do at least.

 

alternator voltage with car running should be like 14.x Volts.  test that.

 

if it happens again and it's not the battery or alternator then you likely have a drain. and the good news is that if you've already removed the battery cable and used a volt meter you can test it yourself.  using amultimeter with milliamp setting you can easily test it yourself in a matter of minutes. i would have the meter handy just in case it does happen again.  then you could at least verify "when it happens" so to speak rather than having it tested later only to find out it's fine.

 

if it happens - or I might even advise testing it now and telling us what you get - remove positive battery cable and put a multimeter between the cable and battery terminal (some people will even use an LED).  set it to milliamps to see how much parasitic draw you have - the current the vehicle is pulling just sitting there with nothing on and no keys in the car.  30-40 milliamps is normal.  more than that verifies your drain.

 

to track down the drain you measure milliamps and keep pulling fuses until the drain drops to normal levels...like from 200 to 40 milliamps.  when that fuse is pulled you know the trouble is on that one circuit. 

 

then you look up that circuit and start unplugging all the items on that circuit until the drain disappears.  you might not be up for that because you may not know where all the components are or have a factory service manual to track them down.  but for a dealer it's not that big of a deal to do this properly and nail.

 

*** keep in mind any momentary surge in draw will blow the fuse (or the unit itself if it doesn't have one) of the multimeter.  so if you hook it up and then open the door - which pulls power for the dome light and dash door open light and chime if the key is in...that draw will blow the fuse.

[idosubaru]

cool - cig light battery monitor, no way!

 

Cougar knows his electrical, you should get a smile on your face to see him replying to a question, i do!

[nipper]

get your volt meter out again. get out the hose. Wet down your accessory drive belt and see what happens. Spray water up under the car like the car wash would and see if it happens again. The key here is to try to reproduce it so you can tell the dealer what you found, not so much to fix it yourself. 

[bibsoconner]

Thanks for the advice everyone.  The Subaru dealer found nothing and I picked it up yesterday.  It's 6:30 a.m. as I write this.  I have fear as to whether the car will start at 7 a.m. to go to work!  It seemed fine yesterday after I picked it up and started it a few times (gas station, errands, etc.).  Perhaps it was some moisture (inside car or outside car) that dried up. 

 

I'll keep any eye on things and perhaps try some of the tests suggested (such as seeing if the mamp while car is off is <60.  <30 was suggested by Subaru) if I can convince myself that I won't electrocute myself through clumsiness or stupidity.

 

As an aside (or to bring you humor), have you ever heard of the advice of "Don't use an analog volt meter to measure the battery, use a digital one. You can hurt the electrical system with an analog volt meter".  This is what the service manager at my local dealer stated. I repeated it around work; none of us can see any sense in it.  Digital might be more accurate and easier to read....  

 I got the distinct impression he was making stuff up. I swear next time I'm in, I'm going to ask him if he checked the Quantum Flux Inverter and see what his reaction is.  Right now, I'd place even money that he will respond, "Of course we checked it".

 

Anyhow, thanks again.  I'm hopeful all will work out.  It's a sharp looking car and the (reported) reliability is good.  I'm looking forward to getting the racks and going camping with it. 

-Dave

[nipper]

Er can you find another dealership? Digital vs analog both have their pros and cons, and depends upon the job. Digital are powered internally to power the display, analog are not. Digital work off a sampling rate to get a reading (being digital). Usually the better the gauge the higher the sampling rate. Analog is instantly reading and can sometimes pick up things the digital can't especially at really low voltages.I have seen techs use high tech digital voltage analyzers and pass bad alternators because they had no idea what all the pointed lines meant on the readout, where an analog would have picked up a bad alt. 

 

I would go around the service manager and talk directly to the mechanic that worked on the car. I suspect the service manager (who does not need to be a mechanic, tech, or even know how to use a screwdriver) is just a delegator or paper pusher in this dealership. In some dealerships they are kick rump roast, in others they need thier asses kicked.

[Cougar]

Using a analog voltmeter should never cause any problem when measuring any kind of power source the meter is rated for. There could possibly be a problem using one when checking certain junctions of solid state devices using the ohmmeter function of the meter due to the meter current needed to run the meter. It is usually safer to use a digital meter when doing that kind of testing.

 

Hopefully you are good to go now and the battery was just low on charge. I would hope the shop checked current drain on the battery with the car parked and things have gone into the sleep mode to make sure there wasn't an excessive current drain on the battery.

[nipper]

Like Cougar said there are instances when you can not use a self powered meter, but there is nothing on an automobile that you would encounter.

[tudorw]

I'm having a similar problem. My 2014 Forester has failed to start on 3 separate ocasions. It is running perfectly and then I park the car , turn off the ignition and then 5 minutes later the engine won't turn over. The dealer finds nothing wrong. I carry a eliminator booster battery around now beause of this unsolved problem. I am hittig a dead wall withthe dealership. Does anybody have suggestioson how to proceed. I feel like ditching the car  and and buying a Honda right now !!

[idosubaru]

Did you answer your own question - ditch the car and buy a Honda?  Done.

 

1. won't turn over - as in the motor doesn't move at all or do anything?
2.  when it doesn't turn over - are there interior lights and all working fine?

3. you say you're carrying a booster battery - does that work every time?

4.  do the dealer mechanics know that the booster gets it started every time?  they may have no idea where to start/test if what you told us isnt' getting to them, which can easily happen.  you tell the service manager a whole list of details and he doesn't record it or never tells the mechanic.

 

If I infer that the battery pack gets the car started every time then basically the battery isn't fully up to charge so:

 

1. alternator output needs tested - what results did the dealer get?

2.  battery needs tested - what results did the dealer get?

3.  terminals needed tested

 

Advance Auto parts and other stores can do the battery and alternator testing for free...though it seems odd that Subaru woudlnt' just do that for you under warranty.

[porcupine73]

The service person saying the analog voltmeter could hurt the electrical system probably one time hooked up an analog ammeter like say 0-50 amps to something instead of a voltmeter and cooked something. But that would happen with a digital ammeter too.

 

(I might have missed it), but what did the dealer say they checked? I would think they should have checked the parasitic current draw with nothing running and possibly done a battery load test.

[nipper]

The service person saying the analog voltmeter could hurt the electrical system probably one time hooked up an analog ammeter like say 0-50 amps to something instead of a voltmeter and cooked something. But that would happen with a digital ammeter too.

 

(I might have missed it), but what did the dealer say they checked? I would think they should have checked the parasitic current draw with nothing running and possibly done a battery load test.

You need a new service tech. He admitted that he doesnt know what he is doing. If he doesnt know how to use a simple test meter, he deosnt know what he is doing.