Uberoo Posted November 19, 2013 Share Posted November 19, 2013 (edited) Ive seen stock and built transmissions die offroad. With as much money spent on those things I would hope they would be maintained.Case in point the owner of the local 4x4 store has a 460 bronco on 44" tires,and a supercharged 454 powered s10 blazer also on 44" tires.Both have a built automatic.Both have to stop on long hill climbs because both trucks cook the transmission. There is puddle near the top of a steep/long road,every time if he can even make it to the top he has to drive through that puddle fast just to try to cool everything down. One of the recent trips up his big uber capable rig had to be towed back to town because the transmission fried to the point it wouldn't move. The same is true for every other vehicle with automatics Ive encountered up there-always needing to add transmission fluid or stopping to cool the transmission.Yet for some reason all of them swear by their automatic..On the other hand,the only problem with a manual is maybe the oil gets so low that it starts whining or is difficult to engage gears. unless I am misinformed subaru automatic transmissions really don't like to be at any angle other than horizontal. Edited November 19, 2013 by Uberoo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivans imports Posted November 19, 2013 Share Posted November 19, 2013 I killed standard after standard burned out ceramic clutches riped out low ranges broke shafts ect putt in automatic never problems agian is only way to hold 300+ hp standard just shatter. And I abuse the crap outa my trans. The tough truck event I did was jumping buggy 6ft in the air landing with all 4 tires at full rpms broke one rear axle but trans no problem. And holding it at line at 3800 on stall with brakes locked up the trans temp comes up but havent overheated it yet. I use a tubular cooler is about 2ft long and finned all the way round. The auto trans is tough have broken a cupple diffs but from stoping with tires locked on dry pavment but trans unit seems bullet proof 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uberoo Posted November 19, 2013 Share Posted November 19, 2013 (edited) Because when your jumping an automatic acts like a "spring" in the driveline.Rather than everything linked solidly with a clutch there is some play because of the fluid. As for the trans overheating bit,both of us are talking about two different types of offroading.In your case you hold it at stall and launch and your only using it for a couple of minutes.In the slow speed offroad world think of holding it at stall for HOURS. Edited November 19, 2013 by Uberoo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivans imports Posted November 20, 2013 Share Posted November 20, 2013 oh no we run this thing for tank after tank of gas on my freinds unlimited beach 100kms of beach front hills jumps rock piles sand holes mud pitts ect I putt it thru hell trying to break it before race season hours and hours of abuse 3 drivers 3day 3 times a year in the end we broke 4 rear axles and colasped one front strut trans never got hot. Even in two ft of snow pulling very hard under boost still never got hot warm but not hot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uberoo Posted November 20, 2013 Share Posted November 20, 2013 so what happens when you drive 5 MPH for hours? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vegablade Posted November 20, 2013 Share Posted November 20, 2013 (edited) so what happens when you drive 5 MPH for hours? Probably nothing as he seems to have built a quite capable rig with the appropriate precautions installed to avoid overheating or damaging his equipment. The Manual vs Automatic debate is a waste of time as they are both plenty capable in all kinds of different situations. Very few people have driven enough variations of builds to say one is far superior then the other. Only that one is preferred. Lots of people wheel both and have no issues, lots of people also have issues with both. Its all about what works or doesn't for our needs. If you feel that you have a perfect solution please build it and report back and show us how superior you are. Edited November 20, 2013 by Vegablade 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uberoo Posted November 20, 2013 Share Posted November 20, 2013 Probably nothing as he seems to have built a quite capable rig with the appropriate precautions installed to avoid overheating or damaging his equipment. The Manual vs Automatic debate is a waste of time as they are both plenty capable in all kinds of different situations. Very few people have driven enough variations of builds to say one is far superior then the other. Only that one is preferred. Lots of people wheel both and have no issues, lots of people also have issues with both. Its all about what works or doesn't for our needs. If you feel that you have a perfect solution please build it and report back and show us how superior you are. transfercase. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Presidente Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 (edited) transfercase. Not a transmission. Automatics are just fine offroad, crawling for hours on end. I've known lots of guys that have run them with lots of success, including myself. They are absolute magic in rocks and areas you need to use a gentle touch to get over. A ton of Jeep XJ's came with AW4's and they are really tough trannys just in stock form. I've never had or heard of any issues running them off-camber and they can turn 36's all day over f'd terrain.The key is keeping it cool...Its real simple, if it gets hot, get a better cooling system. If it breaks and its not overheating, get a better tranny or lower gears...and just because its built up, doesn't mean its strong enough for the rest of the drivetrain/rig. If you build it right, it won't break and will be trouble free. Manuals have their place in my heart too, so dont think I'm saying one is better than the other, they both have their place on the trail. Josh Edited November 21, 2013 by El Presidente 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Presidente Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 And yet the most common failure I see offroad with traditonal 4x4's is the automatic hating life. Most failures I see are selectable hubs(If they're being run at all, they are the weakest point in a select 4wd axle), broken axles and broken u-joints. I've never seen an automatic give up the ghost, and I've seen alot of them, but I've seen them have issues a handful of times. Josh 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivans imports Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 We just couldent get standard trans to hold up to high hp no matter what. Keeping in mind my auto is not compleatly stock we put outback forward clutchpack and drum into the early 4eat gives me two wide clutchs instead of 3 thin clutchs and tougher basket other than that stock. I also only use 1rst / 2nd gears have no need for rest as it will do 110 kms in 2nd. Sorry a'm not trying to tell you guys what to do just what worked for me. A'm going on to almost 18 years of bagen subarus in the bush and many many hours of subaru offroad in many difernt setup subarus. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsuru Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 this is dangerous territory... some consider the argument of "Automatic vs Manual" to be as touchy a subject as Religion and Politics. I am enjoying the civility which is being expressed here. With respect for each others opinions, and experiences. I see some common threads in off road failures, One is lack of maintenance. simple thing really, but often never truly considered. Especially important in getting a used vehicle, look it over carefully. Odds are that they didn't have the same idea about things as you do. Another is using the wrong vehicle for the task. Yes, I know we all had that "starship/jet fighter" moment when we believe that we are screaming through the universe, beholden only to ourselves, truly and firmly believing that our Pinto/Fiat/MG Midget/Lumina would carry us to the ends of the earth and back. Truth is, very few vehicles can actually go seriously offroading or even trail running without issues. They just weren't built for it. (although some can handle abuse better than others) One big cause for failure is overbuilding. some transmissions, I'll refrain from pointing fingers here, just were not intended to handle a properly built up engine. clutches and gears were designed to function under "normal" day in and day out driving. for 99% of the civilized world that meant pavement and maintained dirt roads. Put a bored and stroked 400+ HP Ford or Chevy in front of a stock transmission and it will fail. The economics of manufacturing a beefy transmission is not good for the bottom line of the manufacturer. Likewise are the transfer cases. In other words, they build them as cheaply as possible. There is a standing command from Ford (and I am sure Chevy and the others follow suit) that if any of it's suppliers can shave off $0.01 (that's one cent US, folks) from each component or part, that they are to do so. they look for the cheapest way to manufacture, without adversely affecting integrity or safety. Sure their products all work great (usually). they just aren't bullet proof (or resistant to small arms fire). this is just my opinion, and it wasn't asked for. you may disregard any or all of it and I'll not take offense. But in my 47+ years of roaming this earth, I have learned a few things. One of which is: If you want a truly capable off road vehicle, you almost have to build it yourself. (and not cut corners.) It is all good for something, and all good for nothing. Just depends on what you do with it. quietly, timothy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apintonut Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 Smaller tires? I have ran 2.3 fords in 3 built off road toys i always end up buying adjustable cam pully to adjust torque range. Maybe hho? Or race fuel? I like the 2.5 fly wheel idea cant hurt to try. Make a crank pully thats 100lb? In my old pinto i got a torque converter from a v6 car 2300stall to 2800 stall may hold true for soob too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivans imports Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 I put on 33s now up from the 31s that will test it more but gave me two inchs of clearance and raised the gear ratio a bitt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthCoast Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 We just couldent get standard trans to hold up to high hp no matter what. Keeping in mind my auto is not compleatly stock we put outback forward clutchpack and drum into the early 4eat gives me two wide clutchs instead of 3 thin clutchs and tougher basket other than that stock. I also only use 1rst / 2nd gears have no need for rest as it will do 110 kms in 2nd. Sorry a'm not trying to tell you guys what to do just what worked for me. A'm going on to almost 18 years of bagen subarus in the bush and many many hours of subaru offroad in many difernt setup subarus. Ivan, What advantage is there doing this over just using the outback 4.44 trans? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivans imports Posted January 15, 2014 Share Posted January 15, 2014 I a'm using a 92 turbo legacy 4 eat as it has shot peened main shaft and harder drums / baskets higher pump flow and a stronger rear tail output drum. I think the outback one will be just as tough but people still need those so not so easy to come by. But older 4eats easy to find and outback units even when bad diffs are good most of the time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sumoco Posted January 19, 2014 Share Posted January 19, 2014 (edited) A good way to get better torque and power is to do a HHO addition, it's super simple and almost doubles your mpg and adds significantly to your torque and horsepower PLUS you can wire a switch to your dash to flip it on or off, if you need any help with this project feel free to pm me Edited January 19, 2014 by sumoco Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loyale 2.7 Turbo Posted January 19, 2014 Share Posted January 19, 2014 Seems like I'm lost on Translation once again ... ... What is an HHO? Something that adds so much advantages as you described, and still being Simple, Should be beyond Awesome... Kind Regards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted January 19, 2014 Share Posted January 19, 2014 What is an HHO? Hydrogen and Oxygen gasses separated through electrolysis. The problem has always been creating enough of it to actually be worth using. If you want to produce alot of it, you need alot of electricity, which bogs down the ALT, so claims to improved effieciency are inconsistant. It's always variable depending on the type of system you run. You can produce it at home, and then capture and transfer it.....but hydrogen is hard to contain, and very explosive too...... I have yet to see an HHO system with any real world practical returns. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sumoco Posted January 19, 2014 Share Posted January 19, 2014 There is one company that is selling water carbs that use the HHO method but it costs 800 and to me that's not worth it, but I've seen this method work wonders in fact my buddy has a van that runs purely off the stuff and it chugs better than it did with just gas, I've also seen people fab a second alt bracket and cram a second alternator so that it doesn't bog down their battery power. In our kind of cars since our body's and engine weigh nothing I believe it would do tremendous things Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthCoast Posted January 19, 2014 Share Posted January 19, 2014 Not sure how that helps Scott or I since we are running fuel injected EJ's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apintonut Posted January 19, 2014 Share Posted January 19, 2014 (edited) Hho works better with fi cars and its cheap!!! http://m.ebay.com/itm/201021387380?nav=VI&sbk=1 http://m.ebay.com/itm/201022448955?nav=SEARCH&sbk=1 I have used these kits they work ok for the price my daily got some more tuning components to tune and adjust it (efie) and (pwm) u wont need those for what u r doing with it Edited January 19, 2014 by apintonut Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthCoast Posted January 20, 2014 Share Posted January 20, 2014 (edited) Hmm... checked out those links. Seems kinda gimmicky like the chips you can buy that claim to add 10 mpgs. http://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/alternative-fuel/gas-mileage/4310717 Edited January 20, 2014 by NorthCoast Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apintonut Posted January 20, 2014 Share Posted January 20, 2014 Hmmm well ive seen 40% better mileage the 300% they were looking for no but it did and dose work for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Presidente Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 We're getting off-topic, but I want to add that HHO generators work just fine on fuel injected systems, since they basicly work along side of any fuel system, I've seen it personally. They don't throw off fuel maps or make it run leaner or richer, they just create a condition where the motor needs less fuel period. Theres a really good write-up I saw over at the Cherokee Forum a few years ago. A guy over there had really well documented and build write-ups along with a working homemade HHO generator. He explained a lot of the common problems people run into and how to make the system run at its best efficiency. Sorry, I don't have a link. About a year after I read the thread, the shop I was working at got an order for some parts for an HHO generator and I got a chance to talk to the guy who was building it. Apparently he started out making a small scale one for his lawn tractor and then scaled it up for his car. I never heard back from him as to how the larger scale ones haven worked, but I've seen them work else where. Josh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthCoast Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 (edited) Less fuel use is great but what about more low range power? That's what we're after. Edited January 23, 2014 by NorthCoast Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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