Twitch de la Brat Posted November 6, 2013 Share Posted November 6, 2013 (edited) Going to do a hone on my EA81 and was curious about any tips on proper honing technique. Such as if the oil is a requirement and if it's recommended to do it in a certain temperature range. Figured this would be good info for anyone doing bottom end engine work. Thanks in advance guys. Twitch PS: This is the hone I'm planning on using: http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B002PIBBSK/ref=ox_sc_act_image_1?ie=UTF8&m=A221LQEWFFVQAG Edited November 6, 2013 by Twitch de la Brat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthWet Posted November 6, 2013 Share Posted November 6, 2013 Are you putting in new rings? If so, what is the facing material on the top ring? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted November 6, 2013 Share Posted November 6, 2013 (edited) That hone may not be large enough. 95mm. I believe EJ22 bore is 96.9 mm Edit* Duh.....EA81...92mm bore.......Ooops Edited November 6, 2013 by Gloyale Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivans imports Posted November 6, 2013 Share Posted November 6, 2013 I use a ball hone on slow speed lubed with 10-30 oil is very important to go up and down consistantly and smoothly and try not to stay at top of cly to mutch as they wear tapered so more honing at bottom of cly than top. I also putt a old gasket on top of block to protect it from scraches Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twitch de la Brat Posted November 6, 2013 Author Share Posted November 6, 2013 Are you putting in new rings? If so, what is the facing material on the top ring? Yes, and until the pistons arrive, I won't know, They might be moly, but then agaon they may just be basic iron. What kind of difference will it make? Twitch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivans imports Posted November 6, 2013 Share Posted November 6, 2013 Should be crome molly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twitch de la Brat Posted November 6, 2013 Author Share Posted November 6, 2013 (edited) I use a ball hone on slow speed lubed with 10-30 oil is very important to go up and down consistantly and smoothly and try not to stay at top of cly to mutch as they wear tapered so more honing at bottom of cly than top. I also putt a old gasket on top of block to protect it from scraches Thanks for the tip Ivan. I know about the taper, and shockingly this little EA81 has almost immeasurable taper on the cylinder Even after 200k. But I will be focusing on the bottom of the bore more-so than the top. Do you run the bore in spinning or slide it in and then start spinning it? Twitch PS: Part Number for the pistons is RY2666, an old Beck-Arnley number. Not sure who the pistons are officially made by yet. Edited November 6, 2013 by Twitch de la Brat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivans imports Posted November 6, 2013 Share Posted November 6, 2013 Can go in stoped but must come out spinning or drag marks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twitch de la Brat Posted November 6, 2013 Author Share Posted November 6, 2013 Can go in stoped but must come out spinning or drag marks Perfect, thank you. This is my first engine build and I really don't want to screw it up Do you recommend a certain type of 10w-30? Synthetic vs Conventional? Twitch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivans imports Posted November 6, 2013 Share Posted November 6, 2013 As long as its not dry also should be going up and down at a good rate do not go slow is important to get a good xrosshatch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twitch de la Brat Posted November 6, 2013 Author Share Posted November 6, 2013 Ok. I'll look up some videos on youtube before I start into it, just to see how long to run it and how fast to have the drill for proper honing technique. Twitch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthWet Posted November 6, 2013 Share Posted November 6, 2013 The rate of up and down is relative to the rotational rate... you are looking for a 45degree crosshatch, which means same speed up and down as the speed of the abrasive going around the cylinder. If, at tear-down, you can still see hone marks top-to-bottom on the cylinders then their is little-to-no wear or taper. The ring facing-type matters as to which hone grit you use. A molybdenum facing requires only a mild hone, whereas a chromed facing requires a coarser hone in order to "wear in" the chrome facing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twitch de la Brat Posted November 6, 2013 Author Share Posted November 6, 2013 Gotcha. I'll order my hone when I find out what rings I got with my pistons. Do you guys normally get chrome-moly rings with new pistons or are they typically basic cast iron-moly? Twitch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthWet Posted November 6, 2013 Share Posted November 6, 2013 I have no idea what a "chrome-moly" is in this context. (I am a little out of date on these things, so it could just be me ) In my view of the world, typically you will have ductile iron compression rings, with either a chrome-plated facing or a molybdenum filled groove on the facing. It's been over 30 years since I have done a complete rebuild on an engine, so I may be way out of date. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twitch de la Brat Posted November 6, 2013 Author Share Posted November 6, 2013 "Chrome-moly" is an alloy featuring primarily chromium and molybdenum. The material tends to be extremely wear resistant as well as non-corrosive/corrosion resistant. It is used heavily in high grade tools and long wear items (such as rings). From my research, it appears to be the "premium" ring material. Your typical rings with be basic iron with maybe a moly face. The chrome face rings are probably chrome-moly. Twitch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthWet Posted November 7, 2013 Share Posted November 7, 2013 Well, after a quick peruse around the web, including Federal Mogul, it would appear that chrome-moly alloy steel rings do not exist, at least not for automotive purposes. Iron is the rule, with some industrial applications specifying "steel" rings. (BTW, I have known about CrMo steel for many decades, just not in the context of piston rings where its properties are mismatched for the application. My fault for being vague on my previous post. Cheers!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twitch de la Brat Posted November 7, 2013 Author Share Posted November 7, 2013 Looks like I was looking at the wrong info, than you for the clarification. The pistons and rings I'm getting are ITM, so I'm not sure how they fall in the ranks of manufacturers. So far they seem to use the Beck Arnley part numbering system, and if their quality is similar, I should be good to go. Twitch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coxy Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 This is one of the definite guides for Honing Cylinders, I always start out with a normal Sunnen type stone hone with three stones to make sure there are no hollows or high points, Flex Hones or ball Hones will follow the worn cylinder points so while it looks good it may not measure up so nice. I do however use the Flex Hone for finishing as it gives you the ability to Plateau Hone for longer bore life, If you do not know what Plateau Honing is just look at this link for more detail on the whys and wherefores of Honing Engines correctly. http://www.enginebuildermag.com/2000/09/cylinder-bore-surface-finishes/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twitch de la Brat Posted June 23, 2014 Author Share Posted June 23, 2014 I didn't end up honing the engine myself. It was worth the $100 to just let the machine shop do that. No chance of screwing it up Twitch 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clunkerbob Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 A ball hone is the best for braking the glaze in a cylinder if you are reringing an engine . A rigid hone is best for setting piston clearance after reboring a cylinder but will work if used sparingly . DONT try to get out all the marks or scores in a used bore , its not neccesary and will create too much piston to wall clearance by the time you are done hacking away . Remember , you are just breaking the glaze so the new rings will seat . A nice even crosshatch is what you are looking for . Subie cylinders are good material and rarely taper or wear very much . Another thing thats critical is to wash the honed bores out with hot soapy water , NOT just solvent or brake clean . Solvent takes out the oil but leaves the abrasive in the crosshatch to wear the new rings . You can use solvent first , but finish off with the soapy water . Douche out the block completely with soapy water , rinse , and blow it out with compressed air and coat cylinders with oil so they dont flash rust and you are good to go . Make sure the valve guides are tight and seals if used are new and you wont have any oil consumption problems . For break in I used to let the engine pull full throttle from about 15 -20 MPH up to speed in top gear back down again . Do this maybe 10 times or so in a row and the new rings are seated . Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coxy Posted May 24, 2015 Share Posted May 24, 2015 (edited) Here is some scientific reading on the Subject the first link and last link is a PDF you can save. http://deepblue.lib.umich.edu/bitstream/handle/2027.42/26638/0000180.pdf https://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=13&ved=0CCwQFjACOAo&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.oerlikon.com%2FecomaXL%2Ffiles%2Fmetco%2Foerlikon_Paper_SAE_Madison_2012.pdf%26download%3D1&ei=4zpiVdmhK4HUmgW8goCACg&usg=AFQjCNHvtzTj_P0tp9V1Dz0mIUlf0afFhg&sig2=v8qNhV22YJnWHGGgaDk9dg http://www.transportation.anl.gov/pdfs/MM/848.PDF Edited May 24, 2015 by coxy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MR_Loyale Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 The very first car I ever had was a used 1971 Plymouth Duster with a 318 my dad bought for me for $200 saying how we would rebuild the engine. I was not interested in auto mechanics at that time as electronics and software were my geeky pursuits. I just wanted a car to drive. So after the engine was apart, my dad decided he would hone the cylinders using those three stone setups on the end of a drill. All seemed fine until we took it to a machine shop to get the rest of the work done. The guy measured the cylinder walls and said it was done wrong and would have to be done oversize. It was the largest you could go before hitting the water jacket and the last time it could be rebuilt. Sine then, I have never had the need to do honing but if I ever did it would be strictly done by a shop. Now there are those that know what they are doing when it comes to honing at home and more power to them. It is just not a job I would trust myself to be able to do right. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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