Can I pull the engine and transmission out as one unit

[murfmv]

I've been asked by my neighbor to replace the transmission of his daughter's 2000 outback. There is a clunking when turning to the right and the right wheel will bind in one spot when rotating it.

We are in a barn and have good access from above.  With the right sling and come alongs and supporting the transmission with a floor jack.  I think it's possible to pull everything out from the top.

 

Am I crazy or what?

[idosubaru]

yes you're crazy and yes you can do it!  so yep, do it!  i've done it before.  pull it.  you'll need more vertical space as the lump is longer to get over the radiator top support but no big deal.

 

i might be doing it again this weak actually.

Edited December 16, 2013 by grossgary

[superu]

totally!

you could drain and pull the radiator(s) to make that critical angle a bit easier too, and you can prop the hood EXTRA open with a nifty subaru trick.

 

 

BUT are you SURE you need to pull the trans for this?  You may have already but check other easier obvious things first, like a bad half shaft, bud/warped/misaligned rotor, etc. etc.

[murfmv]

Thanks everyone. Two garages said it was the transmission, one said $5000 so we are doing it ourselves. When rotating the right wheel, when it started binding-up, the left wheel started turning.  With it out of the car, I can open it up, Also can see if binding of the right wheel has stopped after removing the CV joints.  This will tell you whether it is in the transmission or wheel.

[johnceggleston]

 

BUT are you SURE you need to pull the trans for this?

.

.

clunking when turning to the right and the right wheel will bind in one spot when rotating it.

 

it sounds a little like torque bind.

 

auto or manual trans?

 

i sure would be sure, before i pull a trans.

 

it could be the trans,and with 2 shops saying so it probably is,

but it wouldn't be the first time a non-subaru shop mis-diagnosed a trans or torque bind.

[murfmv]

It is definitely a torque bind of some kind.  The CV joints are somewhat new, rusting but still having the NAPA tags on. When the car was started and engaged on the stands, there was quite an up and down movement in transmission case for a short time.

[Fairtax4me]

Auto or manual trans?

[murfmv]

I'm sorry manual transmission

[Fairtax4me]

Is it making noise? Clanking? banging? Snapping?

Have you checked the gear oil for big chunks of metal? Manual trans oil generally comes out a bit grey anyway, especially if it hasn't been changed in forever.

 

Movement of the transmission case when engaging a gear is normal. There a lot of weight that needs to start moving, tires axles, driveshaft. If the engagement of the clutch isn't smooth you'll see plenty of jumping around, just like if you stall the wngine trying to start. The mounts on the engine and trans are designed to absorb that movement so you don't feel it inside the car. Otherwise the whole car would jerk around the same way.

Ever drive a riding lawnmower on a bumpy surface? It bounces around everywhere because it doesn't have anything to absorb motion. The whole mower has to move up and down over every bump.

 

Point is, if you have just a clunk when turning, its probably an axle. And the rest is just inexperience or dramatization to make the issue seem worse than it really is.

[murfmv]

Once I disconnect the right CV joint, I should be able to tell if it is in the wheel or in the transmission.

[superu]

Once I disconnect the right CV joint, I should be able to tell if it is in the wheel or in the transmission.

 

and you can do that on the ground with trans and everything IN the car. punch, hammer and a pry bar.

with time, $ave $$

 

When you had the car up and hand turned the right wheel, then when it began binding and the left turned, which way did it turn, same or opposite?

[murfmv]

I'm pretty sure it turned the same way

[86BRATMAN]

This doesn't really sound like torque bind to me, it should do the same thing either direction the wheel is turned. My first inclination is the axle, wouldn't be the first time an aftermarket axle has failed in a subaru. They are notoriously inferior to oem.

[murfmv]

I appreciate all the fine comments. I will definitely start on the right wheel and post some follow-up info.  I want to say it seems like the Subaru has become the new "Car of the People" as the "bug" was many years back. I owned an early eighties Subaru and it rotted out so badly, I wouldn't get another, but I must say all of your comments have been really terrific!

[Pierobon]

https://www.icloud.com/photostream/#A1JtdOXmYYdG9;C1754850-7DB7-4092-8009-D4F64C98A1A2

 

I think it's even easier to do this way, since you don't have to separate engine and transmission inside the car (and later unite them also). Also, if you look this other picture, the same bar you normally use to hold the hood open, you just have to position it in a different place so the hood will stay open almost in the vertical.

https://www.icloud.com/photostream/#A1JtdOXmYYdG9;05722CD9-39A8-432B-B1F1-BD2C4F4B4884

[murfmv]

I'm totally amazed that you are doing this work in flip flops and everything is so clean. I will probably pull the radiator also, to protect and give me more room.

[Pierobon]

I'm totally amazed that you are doing this work in flip flops and everything is so clean. I will probably pull the radiator also, to protect and give me more room.

You know, since you already have to drain and disconnect the radiator hoses from the engine, what's wrong with removing 2 additional screws and sliding it up and out? Air conditioning radiator is still inside the vehicle, but this one is smaller... just take care not to touch the engine there because it's really easy to bend the grills - engine is heavy and the slightest touch is always strong enough to damage the radiator.

 

And about the cleanliness, you know, engines are designed with tolerances on the scale of thousandths of an inch, and the smallest dirt is always enough to get stuck on those tiny spots and ruin the tolerances by 500% or 98236573% very fast.

 

This is one reading I liked very much, its best suited for the obsessed ones, but I guess everybody can have learn a lot from it. Enjoy the last picture from the page. =)

http://www.mototuneusa.com/power_news_--_how_to_clean_up_at_whatever_you_do.htm

You can always say "but who cares about racing, I use my Subaru for traveling and sightseeing... Now I tell you, hey, what about those extra fuel mileage? 10% more power could mean 10% less fuel used - yays!

 

And the flip-flops are because air temp was about 35ºC on that day, guess that's 95ºF. I like more working with pants too...

Edited December 23, 2013 by Pierobon

[superu]

Well, yeah!  Who doesn't wrench in flip-flops? 

 

 

https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/?ui=2&ik=3798e1c67c&view=fimg&th=14e31c8cefd7cf2a&attid=0.1&disp=inline&safe=1&attbid=ANGjdJ9PDV7OXgxFtj7yWVw5m6IV8ZYlxvVyymELoqG1q0jdqXaJIu6U7slmQzyrQLPWPEBuqJtLUuAEJJmQ6vXw3eF_Xg0g_SncLTPQXS6PylSOEmgLXlXCjrak04w&ats=1435354324233&rm=14e31c8cefd7cf2a&zw&sz=w1890-h842

 

 

Note:  radiator pulled as indicated above, that extra little bit of wiggle room is invaluable and while you don't need to remove the hood, it's just 4 bolts to do so.

 

BUT, hood opens very wide, and hood prop can be relocated to the strut tower where there's an additional port for it to prop the hood nearly vertical

 

 

And yes, extra strong props and kudos for the cleanliness of your garage (tiled walls and floor!  ), not to mention your car, engine and transmission Pierobon !!   

Edited June 26, 2015 by superu

[idosubaru]

can you estimate an approximate "highest" point of the lift when the engine/trans combo is pulled as a lump? 

8 feet?

 

i've done this before, but the space i've got this time is less since i know it gets really vertical pulling both.

 

with garage door closed i don't have enough room to slide the lift away from the car

with garage door open, it closes off the open space above and i don't have the room to lift as high

 

i can alternately:

1. lift as high as garage door allows, then lift the rear of the trans separately so it's more horizontal and slides over the radiator cross member

or

2. roll the entire contraption out of the garage when i'm ready to pull it, i'd rather avoid that though.

[Pierobon]

can you estimate an approximate "highest" point of the lift when the engine/trans combo is pulled as a lump? 

8 feet?

 

i've done this before, but the space i've got this time is less since i know it gets really vertical pulling both.

 

with garage door closed i don't have enough room to slide the lift away from the car

with garage door open, it closes off the open space above and i don't have the room to lift as high

 

i can alternately:

1. lift as high as garage door allows, then lift the rear of the trans separately so it's more horizontal and slides over the radiator cross member

or

2. roll the entire contraption out of the garage when i'm ready to pull it, i'd rather avoid that though.

 

Here is a tip for you, you don't have to remove the wheels like superu pictures, when you lift the engine/transmission combo by 2 or 3 inches you have enough space to move it sideways and disconnect the driveshafts, this way the vehicle is lower considering it is not placed on those fixed supports... This way you also don't have to remove the suspension links to disconnect the driveshafts from the transmission.

But if this is still not enough, I guess you can remove the front wheels, then lower the vehicle and support the wheel axels directly on the ground with some wood blocks, leaving the disk breaks a single inch or less far from the ground...

 

but if you do it with the wheels on, you can do all the preparations, push the car outside and crane the engine/trans combo, then push the car back into the garage (you can't imagine how the car becomes so light  to push without half a ton of metal inside)...

 

 

About the tiles in my garage, eh...

Car is form grandpa, house is from grandpa... haha.

Sao Paulo is hot, air is hotter than 80F for 80% of the year, reaching 100F now and then, so if you can do ceramic you will have a cooler house. Also, it's way easier to clean... so pretty much every house here has ceramic kitchens and bathrooms, it's really impossible to find people who build with wood and wallpaper, it's always bricks and cement, way cheaper too!

nice to know people appreciate my third world place =)

Edited December 23, 2013 by Pierobon

[murfmv]

Eight feet is more than enough.  I've 10-12 feet total. I don't have an engine so I plan on using at least three chain falls/come alongs. etc.  Two to lift so you can manage the angle then one that can move it fwd as it is coming up.  Keeping it as level as you can.

[idosubaru]

garage doors are fairly standard heights of 7 feet or 8 feet, so i'm actually thinking i may only have 7 feet now, but it seems i should be able to make it happen.

i'd rather not have to move the entire car out of the garage in the middle of winter.

[johnceggleston]

gary,

how about cutting a 2x4 so it sits cross ways in between the fenders where the hood does,

and position it up near the radiator.

then if your max lift is not enough,

you can lower the trans end on the 2x4 and level it out.

then you can add another chain or strap or whatever to the trans end .

this will help level the whole thing up.

 

of course, re-installing it could be a problem.

Edited December 23, 2013 by johnceggleston

[idosubaru]

i was thinking a skid plate of sorts and/or friends helping me up and over.

 

i hadn't thought that i gotta get it back in there! 

 

lift the rear and chain it to the lift - a "load leveler" set up front to back sort of. hopefully that last foot or two of the rear end won't be too tough.

[Fairtax4me]

If you need extra height, when you're ready to lift, take the front wheels off and set the car down on the lower ball joints on top of a couple 2x6 blocks stacked on each other. 4x4 blocks work well too. Gives an extra couple inches if you really need it.

 

Had to do that on my buddies k20 truck because the lift didnt go nearly high enough to get the engine over the front cowl.