Uberoo Posted July 14, 2015 Author Share Posted July 14, 2015 So after more or less all day of measuring stuff,sketching stuff into autocad. I think I have come up with a front crossmember with revised suspension mounts that after I convert to a twin A arm suspension and coil over it should theoretically have 11.5" of front wheel travel with 8.25 of up travel and 2.75" of down travel.I could have better down travel if I wanted to run control arms that were flat at ride height,but I like some ground clearance. Clearancing the body enough for 31" tires to travel up that far ,however, might be a bit of a kicker.For now though the plan is to lay the foundation for long travel, and get it rolling with the stock struts while I collect the coilovers and other bits for long travel.On the plus side, the revised suspension geometry should make it so that the ea81 axles live a long life at the 1.5-2" of suspension lift it will end up running. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uberoo Posted August 17, 2015 Author Share Posted August 17, 2015 So due to the fires/smoke and 100*F+ days I haven't been able to get much done.The garage is needed to park a car next to the brat so I have been working on the rust repair on the right rear corner. I cut out all the rust and welded in a patch panel Then I remade the inner brace Then I made the lower edge of the sill. I made some pieces to connect one of the inner layers with the outer skin but I neglected to take pics of them.I did weld on the outer skin,somewhat, anyway. The ground down area in the center of the plate is where I cut a slit and welded it to the inner layer.Then I ran out of shielding gas. I have a little bit of flux core I could use,but other than that I'm broke and with no money coming in progress is essentially stopped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uberoo Posted August 19, 2015 Author Share Posted August 19, 2015 EDIT: Remembered how much suck that is flux core welding.5 minutes of flux welding and it set me back a good 1/2 hour.Id rather do nothing that let flux core wire go through my welder again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uberoo Posted August 30, 2015 Author Share Posted August 30, 2015 So I found a new friend who could help build a rollcage, as well as advise me on other things, for more or less free other than the cost of tube.Back in the 90's he was involved in desert racing,and has a kick a55 class 8 68 ford truck.In addition to his technical knowledge on truck design he might have a way to make some income by helping him lay down vinyl and/or carpeting.. Anyway, on to the meat and potatos of the story.He could easily bend up a rollcage for the brat,better still that rollcage could be incorporated into the entire vehicle.After a bunch of mockup and head scratching I found a place that I could punch tubes through the firewall to tie the rollcage to the front bumper and suspension mounts.My next question is how can I reinforce the lower "frame" of the brat to take the abuse?He liked my tube work up front but said that the sheetmetal behind it will just collapse the first time the bumper is tested against something or the skidplate hits the ground hard.He suggested that we run a tube from one end of the brat to the other and tie it into the existing unibody structures.While that would would it would also be heavy.Instead of that do any of you have any ideas on how to brace the lower frame so between them and the other body structures the front end is strong enough.Here is pic of the "frames" in question.The driver side "frame" already buckled slightly from some previous abuse.In the upper left corner you can see a "circle" I drew to indicate where the upper tube from the rollcage could come from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott in Bellingham Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 Cool lets see it on the trail ths year get with it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uberoo Posted August 30, 2015 Author Share Posted August 30, 2015 So what pieces on the roll cage need to be made from a single piece and what tubes can be branching off the main tubes?Ive seen designs where the A and B pillars are Inverted U's with everything else fitted out of other tube.Ive seen where B pillar is a inverted U and the A pillars are a continuous piece from the floor up to the B pillar.Another design is B pillar is an inverted U with a roof hoop.Finally Ive seen designs where the A pillar and the rear supports are one continuous piece.What is right or strongest? Also is 1.5x0.95 strong enough for a subaru?The next size option is 1.5x.120 and .120 wall anything is heavy as !@#$. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthCoast Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 (edited) I used 1.75 x .095 for the main hoop, the half laterals (A pillar to main hoop), windshield bar and sill bars (everything gray). Everything else is 1.5 x .095. Edited August 31, 2015 by NorthCoast Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uberoo Posted August 31, 2015 Author Share Posted August 31, 2015 What was that cage built for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthCoast Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 My rally car. I don't think you need to go that crazy. I was think of doing just a main hoop with bars back to the rear strut towers for Stella. I do enjoy the security / handling characteristics of a full cage though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pontoontodd Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 So what pieces on the roll cage need to be made from a single piece and what tubes can be branching off the main tubes?Ive seen designs where the A and B pillars are Inverted U's with everything else fitted out of other tube.Ive seen where B pillar is a inverted U and the A pillars are a continuous piece from the floor up to the B pillar.Another design is B pillar is an inverted U with a roof hoop.Finally Ive seen designs where the A pillar and the rear supports are one continuous piece.What is right or strongest? Also is 1.5x0.95 strong enough for a subaru?The next size option is 1.5x.120 and .120 wall anything is heavy as !@#$. 1.5 x .095 should be plenty strong for your trail rig. .120 wall is only 26% heavier though. Any of those layouts should be strong enough if done correctly. In racing a continuous hoop is required behind the seats (inverted U between the B pillars). I think that's in case your welds are spoob or cracked it will still save you in a bad rollover. Start mocking it up and see which would be easiest to build. You can get EMT and bends pretty cheap, start cutting and tacking. Keep in mind you'll have to weld the tops of the joints somehow. You can cut the roof off, cut holes in the roof, cut holes in the floor for your hoops to drop into, or sleeve the bottoms of the tubes. If you're really worried about weight like you keep saying, you won't want to put a full cage in the car. Something like the subframe connectors they put on muscle cars would probably give you the most stiffness and weight per pound. Maybe you could make something like that to support your front bumper, but I couldn't really tell from your pictures. You'll want to connect the strut mounts, control arm mounts, and engine mounts if possible. I used 1.75 x .095 for the main hoop, the half laterals (A pillar to main hoop), windshield bar and sill bars (everything gray). Everything else is 1.5 x .095. Does this meet the rules for some racing organization? Just curious. For desert racing we need 1.75 x .120 for the entire cage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthCoast Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 Rally America and NASA Rallysport rules. Offroad racing is typically .120 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uberoo Posted August 31, 2015 Author Share Posted August 31, 2015 So this is what I had in mind.I modified this rollcage image with red tubes to show what I was thinking. my paint skillz suck so bear with me. I'm thinking 1.5 x.095 might be a touch small so with extra tubes it should make up for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turbosubarubrat Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 Exoskeleton would do more good for a wheeler if your going to go through the trouble of making a roll cage. You can put rock sliders on then for better protection and tie everything together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uberoo Posted September 1, 2015 Author Share Posted September 1, 2015 Why? its an offroader the body is supposed to get damaged.I'm more worried about the A pillars collapsing during a roll than I am about body damage.Besides its very difficult to brace an exocage enough so it doesnt crush.A couple diagonals with a rollcage and its set. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uberoo Posted September 1, 2015 Author Share Posted September 1, 2015 I took some pics of my friends truck for inspiration.I thought it was a class 8 but its just a chase truck built in the 90's.Still though it was built to 1990's score rules so at the very least its still usefull as a play thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uberoo Posted September 1, 2015 Author Share Posted September 1, 2015 More Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uberoo Posted September 2, 2015 Author Share Posted September 2, 2015 How much strength would I lose if I put the main hoop as close as possible to outside edge of the cab wall rather than inside the cab?A normal internal cage would make the car a helmet only vehicle because right now there is about 7" from my head in any direction.A rollcage + padding could easily reduce that down to 4" or less.I'm thinking I could run the A pillar bars so they punch through the roof by the windshield then run along the roof before meeting up with the main hoop.Than it would still have a windshield bar and a dash brace the same as normal. something like this: it would still be tied into the front and rear bumpers,as well as shock/struts, just the main hoop and part of the A pillar bars would be outside the cab. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthCoast Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 Keep the cage inside. You're not racing so you don't need to use the fire retardant padding. Use something softer and you won't need to wear a helmet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pontoontodd Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 My 2c, either build it inside or outside the car, both would probably be even harder. If you're not racing or trying to prevent body damage though, I think some 2x4 or similar steel tubing connecting the front and rear suspension would do a lot of good for not much weight, time, and expense and could double as sliders. Then try to tie the bumpers, strut mounts, etc into those. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uberoo Posted September 2, 2015 Author Share Posted September 2, 2015 Keep the cage inside. You're not racing so you don't need to use the fire retardant padding. Use something softer and you won't need to wear a helmet. yea but the padding still needs to hard enough to stop my head from hitting the steel tubes.Soft padding just crushes too easily to be any use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthCoast Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 LOL... you never drive with your head inside the car anyway so while all the fuss. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uberoo Posted September 3, 2015 Author Share Posted September 3, 2015 LOL... you never drive with your head inside the car anyway so while all the fuss. because if somehow I screw up wheeling a subaru enough to need a rollcage, id like to think that I would atleast pull my head back in the car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uberoo Posted September 20, 2015 Author Share Posted September 20, 2015 (edited) So I re-enrolled in college to learn drafting and work on my math while I am there.The plan is get a job drafting at least until I can get a degree in mechanical engineering.Anyway, college started back up and I've been a little busy as of late.In order to even think of building a rollcage I need to get the engine semi-permanently mounted in place to figure out where to run tubes to tie everything together.One thing I didn't like my tcase hatch was how far forward the engine ended up being,because I mounted it 8" above where it normally would have mounted with out moving it rearward.So today I set out to address that and I moved the engine as far rearward as I can,which as it turns out is roughly 5-7 rearward of the original position.It required bit more cutting of the transmission tunnel and while I was there I cut out the original shifter holes on the tunnel to make room for the suzuki samurai transfer case.Here is roughly how far back I can stuff the engine,its about a foot from the where the grill will sit. and there is just enough clearance for starter removal It will require more "frame" modifying and reworking my tube front end because the engine will need to sit offset to passenger side a couple inches so the starter can clear the brake booster,and the entire combo will need to point toward the center of the car to keep drive shaft angles from getting too extreme. Next project I'm gonna write down everything I want to do and how best to achieve those goals before I ever pick up the torch/welder.I'm tired of having to redo my previous work. Edited September 20, 2015 by Uberoo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uberoo Posted September 20, 2015 Author Share Posted September 20, 2015 (edited) Pictured is a EJ22 starter,and right now I'm trying to figure out if there is any reason why it can't be used because it is shorter (and fatter) than an EA starter.I lined up an EA82 starter and the EJ starter and I'm not really seeing why it couldn't work. Both pinion gears seem to stick out the same length(pushed out/sucked in) from the mounting flange,and both have 9 teeth. Edited September 20, 2015 by Uberoo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uberoo Posted September 20, 2015 Author Share Posted September 20, 2015 Anyone know any old school hotrod sheetmetal type work?I'm looking at everything and if I have to modify the front tube work/frame rail I might as well shorten the front as well.With the engine shoved so far back and no radiator up front,there is no reason for the front to be as long as it is.I'm stumbling on how to actually shorten the sheetmetal have have the body lines line up.I messed around in paint and it looks like with 4-6 sections cut out of the front fenders I could shorten them.The front fenders slope downward so to shorten them the corner marker lights would need to be moved back and upward slightly to meet up at the body line at the top of the fender.Then the body line in the front section would need to be moved to meet up with the existing line. Like so; the red lines are cut lines and the grey lines are body lines. Shortening the hood would involve a lot of cutting and sectioning to get the raised center portion to line up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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